SLR's Nikon or Canon or another brand?

[Bobcat]

I have been given the task of buying my 15 year old daughter a camera which she will use for fun & for her studies too, she is very artisically driven and I am fairly confident that this is not a fad. I am being brought under tremendos pressure to buy her a Canon EOS 550D.

We have a FinePix S9600 SLR 28-300 permenant lense. I think this is more than adequate to start on as it appears to mave all the automatic & manual settings. However peer pressure is telling her that she must go for a Canon or Nikon. Its a minefield, we have even been told buy Canon body with Nikon Lenses. Where should I start and what lenses should I consider?.

[Torurot]

Just to start you off....

Buying Canon lenses to put on a Nikon or the other way around is ridiculous "advice", and specifically which lenses....

Why not consider another brand like Sony for example.

Here's a review from a guy who REALLY REALLY knows what he is talking about.

"David Kilpatrick from Photoclubalpha posted a nine page long and very accurate Sony A580 review: €œthere is no better APS-C DSLR available from Sony.€"
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2010....ay-view

David is a user of Sony, Nikon AND Canon cameras and lenses. I consider his advice as unbiased as it's possible to obtain in the world of Photography.

You can then use the FAMED Zeiss lenses which are without peer and unobtainium in the Canon/Nikon world if your pocket can stand the price of admission...

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/

[BigTel]

Stick with the Finepix S9600  or why not go for the Finepix S200 EXR  which is still a bridge camera but has the added bonus of the EXR technology along with some fine presets to choose from too.
          I use the Finepix S9600 , for value and quality it is hard to beat.


                                           

[pacman]

Agreed. Ignore the pressure until she masters the basics of photography. The Finepix will be perfectly adequate for the job.

The 550D is a nice camera but next year there will be something better. If she is still keen to take photos by next Xmas, promise her a 550 or its replacement.

She may have grown out of it by then. And as for mixing Canons with Nikon lenses, that has to be the silliest advice ever. They each have different mounts & would need expensive adaptors to fit in the first place. And the lenses won't necessarily be compatible with the electronics of the camera.

The Finepix will be a good learning tool & she can decide just what lenses she needs by trial & error. It will save you spending a lot of money on an expensive mistake.

[rxpharm]

Agreed, the person who advised you about using Canon DSLRs with Nikon lenses doesn't have a clue about cameras!

I agree with Tourot's suggestion to look at David Kilpatrick's reviews and advice. However, your first instinct for her to use the Fuji Finepix S9600 is the best idea, until she masters the basics of photography and then gets into composition, intepretation, etc.

Something that a lot of people forget is that the DSLRs have a finite life span of approximately 100,000 shutter actuations. In the old days of film that would be almost a lifetime of use. However in the digital age, depending how many photos you shoot, it could be just a few years. This is another reason why the advice and pressure for you to buy her a DSLR is ill advised and extremely short sighted.

Far better for her to learn how to use the Fuji well, hone her skills for a few years, and then move to a DSLR when she is ready.

[Jake_Sully]

Get her a bridge camera.. its better than a point and shoot and she can learn the basics of a DSLR and its size and stuff while not having to bother changing lenses. Teens tend to be careless about stuff anyways unless THEY BUY IT THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN MONEY.

Look at the Panasonic Lumix FZ-40/45 (depending on your location - its the same camera) or the Canon SX30 IS (great new camera). Both are tremendous bridge cameras that will last her a long time and she can keep it or upgrade to a DSLR with her own money when she thinks she's serious about it.

To anyone that thinks bridge cameras don't give dslr like pics.. I present you what a sub $350 camera can do:































So DSLR's are better but you don't *need* a dslr. As the saying goes.. the most important part of a camera is the 12 inches behind it!

[ezflip]

Nice shots Jake.

I agree that getting her a DSLR from the start may not be a good idea. She has to learn the basic first and a starter camera will do just fine until she is ready to go to the next level.

I remember when I started my degree in commercial photography (1992). Students were paired up and given an Arca-Swiss 4x5 camera on loan and strongly encouraged to get a manual 35mm camera like a Nikon FM-2 or such.

The reason was to obligate us to learn the traditional manual way of taking a picture. The 4x5 was for the teachers to look at the negatives directly and see if the exposure, composition and focus was correct or not. Can't cheat on a negative - something that can be easily done now with digital photography.

Some low-end digital cameras have full manual modes. Best for learning students.

[Snick]

Go for the 550D, or if you need to save $$ get the 500D or 1000D if avail. Make sure you get it with a kit lens.

If she wants to get serious about photography and learn about F-Stops , Aperture, Depth Of Fields, etc... She will need to get a 'real' SLR

As for brands I would suggest Canon because they make great entry level DSLR and there is a huge market in 2nd hand lenses. But getting Nikon or Sony wouldn't be a wrong choice either.

[Bobcat]

Guys first of all thanks. I wish to congratulate you on your help over my earlier request as to which pocket camera. I punted for the S95 as my Christmas pressy. What fantastic quality pictures coming out of such a little frame.

Amazon £285 delivered, seems a lot when you compare it to the shed load of £100 ish pockets, but a different league. All being well & if I can get out in the spring I will show you it in action. My first trip last year just fell to pieces as I was so overwhelmed by the place that it all fell by the wayside. Didnt even get to finish my trip report. Armed with this beauty it should be a different kettle of fish.

Back to your advices, yep got the stay to branding, think I will punt for the Canon range. I was always a Nikon man, but times move on and seeing what the S95 is like I guess they should be of that style.

Couple of questions?. What lenses should I be looking at, What memory cards, and who might offer the best prices in the UK. Would I be better to buy this on my trip.

Jake Thanks for the pics, sharp & crisp. I will look at your recommendations. You are right, they dont care about stuff, dizzy. She has the compostion thing looks outside the box. I am trying to get her to use my budget Fine pix S9600.

Its difficult as she doesnt understand the the working relationships of shutter speed, depth of field, apperture theorys. Its oh its a crap camera & my mate at school whose daddy has more money than sense because he's divorced and a Disney dad, remote love buying. Has the top end Canon or Nikon. What chance have I got.

So if there are any other recommendations, please bring them on. All the best of best of the season.   Its still bloody cold here...............

[Jake_Sully]

I was originally a Canon person but when it comes to DSLR's after thoroughly researching and now using I'm a Nikon shooter. That aside, any DSLR is good and I'm happy with my D90 but the new D7000 is one awesome camera. Sure I would love to upgrade but it depended on my budget.. and as I'm humbly reminded, my mentor gets stunning images out of an outdated DSLR like the D70S. Those are the ones I aspire to shoot like compared to the newest and greatest from compared to some of the people that have newer cameras.

Also DSLR's are lovely and their performance is second to none, but they can easily bring their own headaches which are generally overlooked. For example: you can get dust into the sensor and it may not be so easy to clean. You can get lenses that might front focus or back focus or side focus. You also have to worry about taking them out into the rain etc and while us adults can sometimes be more selective when we navigate the elements.. teens who are in school and college are not so lucky for social reasons.

I'm not saying this to detract you from getting your teenager a DSLR, just stating some things I ran into and had to fix and I might not have been able to get around it if I were still a teenager with no patience.

Also if you get a DSLR, the phase of getting better more expensive lenses starts. I have 2 so far and am debating a 3rd.   Also the external flash was one of the best buys I made and I didn't even consider it when I originally bought my system.

And she'll have to decide if she's a zoom shooter (convenient) vs a prime shooter. My 2 lenses so far are the 18-105mm VR (since I couldn't afford an 18-200mm or a 18-270 tamron) for my daytime walkaround and I have 1 35mm dx for low light/ night time shots. Believe it or not I actually tried 2 different lenses till I found my 35mm prime. The first one was front focusing by 6mm. Then I tried a sigma 30mm after seeing Manarak's pics and it was side focusing. I would focus on someone's left eye and the focus would miss them completely and go focus on the wall of the building 40 meters behind and to the right of her. My current one backfocuses slightly around 2mm but still perfect when it comes to shooting people so I kept it. But would your daughter have patience if she ran into my problem?

However as you probably can tell from my previous threads asking for help in this forum, I too was asking for advice and went with a bridge camera earlier. Although its a great camera, I ran into limitations. The images I got were clean and crisp for internet postings, but I wanted actual prints to display images without noise. That was what made me upgrade to a DSLR.

But anyways as I was saying a bridge camera comes with modes like a DSLR. Auto, program, aperture priority, shutter priority, full manual and a few scene modes, they're all there. I really suggest your daughter learns on that and uses it as a stepping stone at least till she's 18 or so. By that time she would know if she has a passion for it and you can invest into a dslr system for her birthday or something. Also the bridge camera you may buy now will never be completely useless. Its a much cheaper alternative to say the Sigma 150-500mm lens and much more portable too.

Here's what a Canon SX30 IS looks like (looks like a DSLR to most):







and it gives an unreal 35mm equivalent of 24mm wideangle to 840mm telephoto range. Also has a hotshoe for an external flash.

Clearly the features are here along with the image quality which is why I suggested she learn on this and find out if she's a casual fun user who's quite creative or tending to be on the professional side. Once she knows and you know.. instead of getting an entry level DSLR, you may end up going full frame dslr too, but I think you need this as a first step to gauge her level of interest.

Look here the zoom is incredibly impressive



P.S. also here's a funny thing. Like most teens that age, I had an intense phase with music and heavy metal. I had a guitar and an amplifier and wanted to have better equipment than others and show off - somehow it translated to me being a better player. So I ended up getting a Peavey 5150 Eddie Van Halen Signature Edition half stack and a Jackon Kelly Professional Limited Edition guitar. I actually used to play in bands for a bit but as I realized only after buying the stuff, I couldn't lug it around. On tv those big full stacks of amps seem attractive and every band that's famous has them but realistically at first you play in clubs and usually they have a sound system, all you need is 1 amp and they put a mic in front. So my expenditure was completely worthless and just sat there collecting dust for a lot of years.

It was not until recently when I got into serious photography and I realized that I needed a DSLR that till I went about trying to sell my music stuff to fund my new hobby. Thankfully it did sell and I was able to mostly finance my buys through that, but my point is.. don't end up with a complete waste of money for 15 years like I did. Music equipment thankfully can hold its value longer unlike cameras which depreciate very quickly and she might say oh its not as good as the modern DSLR of 3-5-10 or even 15 years from now.  

[Snick]

S95 is a great choice, I shoot with the S90 all the time.

[Jake_Sully]

Here's something you asked, "Couple of questions?. What lenses should I be looking at, What memory cards, and who might offer the best prices in the UK. Would I be better to buy this on my trip.

Jake Thanks for the pics, sharp & crisp. I will look at your recommendations. You are right, they dont care about stuff, dizzy. She has the compostion thing looks outside the box. I am trying to get her to use my budget Fine pix S9600."

Memory cards: please don't go cheap here, I went with Transcend and got errors and lost a lot of pics. Better off sticking with Sandisk - expensive but reliable.

Lenses... well if you have to go DSLR your choices are simpler with the cameras:

Canon 550D
Nikon D7000

However the choices will be tricky with lenses. And there in are a few follow up questions. You said she can be quite creative and look for outside the box, but does she have the patience to frame it perfectly? Does she prefer walking with her feet to zoom in and out or would rather stand in the original spot, zoom in or out if necessary to get the shot?

That answer will determine what she needs and and its hard for anyone to make a recommendation on lenses since everyone shoots differently... some prefer primes, some prefer wide angle, some prefer long zooms, others prefer fast but limited zoom lenses.. it really depends on your daughters perspective of what she feels is her style.

Also since we're in the digital camera and photoshop manipulation age, if she's skilled with photoshop, she can technically get any lens and fix images in photoshop or other programs. But there in is another question.. does she want to fix images in photoshop?

Questions that need answering before you delve any deeper.

[Torurot]

If you are already a Nikon man with some auto lenses GO NIKON.  As your in the UK why not buy your daughter a subscription to a years worth of David Kilpatricks Pro magazines.  Links  from here
http://www.photoclubalpha.com/  notice the "techniques" link  

Lots of EXCELLENT ideas.

Also has your daughter heard of a wonderful resource called (so last century) a LIBRARY.  They have amazing things called BOOKS that explain in excruciating details the relationships between Aperture/Shutter speed, light etc ect, often illustrated with beautiful PICTURES.  

Sometimes they have to take steps to EDUCATE themselves (with a bit of help from Dad).  


If that fails tell her that "P" mode  stands for "Professional"
   
Also here
http://friedmanarchives.blogspot.com/   &. etc



Never mind about Photoshop, get her to take pictures as if she was using film. "Perfect" out of the camera. Doing it the other way around is VERY time consuming and sloppy. She needs to learn to take good shots IN CAMERA. Once she has mastered the basics of that then a little bit of digital manipulation is fine, BUT first things first..

[Bobcat]

Guys Thanks once again. I have now managed to show her a bridge camera. Jake thank you in particular. The Canon SX 30 looks the dogs & has all that she will need. However I am a little nervous on some of the reviews and the blue edging they are talking about, have any of you got one & should I be bothered. I realise the 28-840 zoom is almost too much & something must bend but will it be apriecable. Should I therefore punt for the Lumix FZ45.

[Jake_Sully]

Apologies for not responding for a while.. the blizzard wrecked havoc where I was.. no power, no cable tv, no internet, no phone, no snow plows, nada.. I've been to Philippines and rode out typhoons there and their response is faster than our @#@$@#$.. but anyways I digress...

Bobcat you can ask deepthroat about the Lumix.. he has it as does Bumblebee.

As for what the SX30 leaves out.. well it doesn't shoot raw which is like a negative. However general opinion is to go for the Lumix if video is important or the Canon is better for images. It certainly has more wideangle than the Lumix 24mm vs 28.