Camera Talk - ultra compact

[manarak]

terrific!

If canon could come up in the next months with an evolution of the S90 bringing more
- wideangle
- hi-res vids
- infinite timelapse
- good burst

I'll be a buyer!

[Snick]

Burst is great. For the rest, there is always next years S100.
I'm very happy with the camera, the lack of HD video is a bummer, and lens 'slows down' at full zoom, but everything else is excellent.

[manarak]

I read somewhere that the light sensitivity decreases very very rapidly with any zoom - true?
another point that was mentioned was huge barrel distortion

[gizmo]

The pic's are great, except for the blob in a few of em??

[rxpharm]

Manarak, in most but the most expensive zoom lenses - the huge ones the sports pro photographers use, the aperture of the zoom lens gets smaller the greater you zoom it. Of course this decreases the amount of light transmission. As for the distortion the better the optical design of the lens the less distortion there will be. If it is a "super zoom" of 10x or more optical, then there will be more distortion from the wide angle range.

These are part of the compromises that the compact point and shoots have to overcome.

As for your specification 10 megapixels or more, don't fall into the megapixel myth - it is the sensor density that makes the difference. The Canon S90 is using a larger than average sensor for a point and shoot so it's low light performance is superior to an equivalent megapixel point and shoot with a smaller sensor.

Here are a couple of articles that discuss this - however the one about sensor density gets a bit technical.

The Megapixel Myth - Ken Rockwell

Digital Camera Sensor Size

[Snick]

The maximum aperture of the lens decreases as you zoom, in camera talk "slows down"
At minimum zoom its a 2.0 aperture which is wide open and lets in a lot of light.
At maximum zoom its a 4.9 aperture which lets in less light ( less than half as much as at 2.0 ). 4.9 still isn't that bad, many lenses go to 5.6 at maximum zoom.

The ability of this camera to take very good pics in very bad lighting is its greatest strength. Video is its greatest weakness.

[manarak]

a couple of vidcaps from some low-light videos (videos shot in bright light look stunning !!)

on these pix I only reduced the pixels from 1280 to 800 wide and compressed using JPG.

[donnnnnny]

(manarak @ Nov. 10 2009,02:15) The spot at the top of the ultra-compact pyramid is still vacant - no perfect camera out there.

What would be your list of wanted features?

Mine:
- more than 10 MP
- infinite timelapse (i.e. take a pic every 10 secs until the card is full)
- wideangle: 24mm or less
- HD movie clips
- waterresistant
- raw format, or 99% quality JPG
- good flash and low light performance
- manual focus
- and loads of stuff to set manually, but good point & shoot performance

...

?? ideas?

LOL no a bigger image sensor.

[donnnnnny]

(rxpharm @ Nov. 15 2009,08:09) Manarak, in most but the most expensive zoom lenses - the huge ones the sports pro photographers use, the aperture of the zoom lens gets smaller the greater you zoom it. Of course this decreases the amount of light transmission. As for the distortion the better the optical design of the lens the less distortion there will be. If it is a "super zoom" of 10x or more optical, then there will be more distortion from the wide angle range.

These are part of the compromises that the compact point and shoots have to overcome.

As for your specification 10 megapixels or more, don't fall into the megapixel myth - it is the sensor density that makes the difference. The Canon S90 is using a larger than average sensor for a point and shoot so it's low light performance is superior to an equivalent megapixel point and shoot with a smaller sensor.

Here are a couple of articles that discuss this - however the one about sensor density gets a bit technical.

The Megapixel Myth - Ken Rockwell

Digital Camera Sensor Size

quite right rxpharm, bigger sensor = better quality especially if you want to blow upo the pics and print em out. full frame or no cropp factor sensors are 36x24 almost the same as film.Then there is the new leica s system is 30 x45 size sensor wi hich is medium format http://en.leica-camera.com/photography/s_system/

[manarak]

My Canon is shooting pix which seem more and more unsharp - I wonder if this has worsened in the last weeks.
I shot a series indoors under neon light and even using the flash the pix are a somewhat blurry :-(


I went shopping again to see if I could get my hands on something better.

The Panasonic GF1 has great specs, except the lens allowing 28mm equiv. is bloody clumsy!
The ultra-flat pancake lens which could still make it into an etui and then in a thousers pocket only manages 40mm equivalent, grrr.


Then there is the new Leica X1 - a fine piece!
Does almost everything I want and fits into a pocket.
It takes less space than the corresponding bundle of 100 USD bills too, because it costs 2000 USD!!!


:-(


But despair not, considering the pace at which technology is evolving and the size of Canon's S90, I expect something interesting to come out in the next 12 months.

[pacman]

I doubt we will see any bigger breakthrough in compact camera design than Ricoh's amazing GXR.

But it still doesn't get around the problem of separate lens.

The holy grail for camera manufacturers is a compact camera with a "fast" (f2 or better) mini zoom lens that will retract into the camera body.

Combine that with a "large" sensor (the bigger the better) & suddenly, the idea of carrying a full size DSLR when travelling becomes redundant.

With the Canon S90 we are almost there.

I thought the 4/3 design of camera was the answer. Only Panasonic & Olympus have bought models to the market & whereas they are the breakthrough in camera size the world has waited for, the addition of small telephoto lens' has proven to be problematic due to them not qualifying as a true compact camera.

And interchangeable lens? Brilliant for versatility but I am still trying to get my head around carrying a camera around with me PLUS an extra lens... OR TWO.

I was looking at the sample pictures taken with a Leica X1. Exactly what you would expect from a Leica lens. Crisp & sharp, there is your $2000 of value right there.

But it is a fixed focal length lens - the equivalent of 36mm. It is a mild wide angle but this is the same that Leica users relied on for half a century in their old rangefinder models.

Serious photo journalists covered all the major events of the world using just such a lens. And from a photography perspective, the world hasn't changed that much.

I believe if one has to have a single focal length lens that can never be changed, around 36mm is ideal. A compromise of course but workable.

Which brings me to the Panasonic DMC-GF1. Not by coincidence did Panasonic choose 40mm as its prime lens. Built in a pancake design, it makes the GF1 a bulky pocket camera. A little heavy perhaps but attached to a belt it is an awesome piece of firepower when compared TO ANY OTHER SMALL CAMERA IN THE WORLD.

Add a very fast lens (f1.7) to the same sensor used in some of the best DSLRs plus a brilliantly designed articulated flash of considerable power, the GF1 has most of the requisites one would ever need. The Olympus E- P2 is close but with no built in flash & a slow autofocus, I will wait for the E-P3 before I would consider it.

For Manarak & myself, if Panasonic could just get the pancake lens design to open out to 28mm (or better) & zoom to 60mm (or better) it would be game over. However, given the laws of physics, I think lens design would need a totally innovative breakthrough to achieve that in such a shallow lens.

In the meantime, it is back to the S90. I wonder what Canon are dreaming up for their S90 Mk II?

[Torurot]

2009's Top Mid-Range Compact Cameras
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/12...cheap_cameras/
Budget snappers for photographers who want a little more
By Register Hardware €¢ 14th December 2009 10:02 GMT

Reviews of:
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ7
Canon PowerShot SX200 IS
Fujifilm Finepix F200 EXR

plus

Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ6
Lots of automation, a fair sprinkling of features and a good overall performance


Samsung WB500
Chunky but cheap with a 24mm wide angle lens and oodles of features


Pentax Optio W80
Shockproof, dustproof and waterproof €“ ideal for the outdoors