why are you all afraid?

[Guest]

If your not a football hooligan then you have nothing to worry about eh !!!!! Only joking Dave

The problem is that most of the brits I see going to Pattaya are just that - drunk, abusive and generally out of control and it makes me mad and ashamed !!! What is the UK famous for know eh ? Violence sadly. As Thomas Hardy put it, " How the mighty are fallen." Yet I digress.

Sure not every brit is like that we both know that but we must acknowledge to that these "types" are making a beeline for Thailand in increasing numbers. The fares are getting cheaper and were in spain or greece or blighty could you get a hooker to stay with for less than 40 quid a day give or take that is more gentle and beautiful than the ugly fat fouled mouth bitches over here

Thailand to them is like curry to a pisshead and Pattaya with all its english/scotish/irish bars just lulls these idiots into thinking they are back home and can behave accordingly.

Deeply saddening IMHO and I can only stay a couple of nights outside of town if I do go.

[katoeylover]

(breakermorant @ Jul. 22 2006,02:23) Thailand to them is like curry to a pisshead and Pattaya with all its english/scotish/irish bars just lulls these idiots into thinking they are back home and can behave accordingly.

Another great reason to stay away from Pattaya!!

Hua Hin Rocks!!!!

[Torurot]

Your on holiday, your NOT Thai. NOTHING, especially "face" is worth being beaten up, shot, knifed etc etc. Be brave, suck it up, apologise, walk away and LIVE to see another nice day in one piece. You will not be fighting one person. Any fight will turn into the 'entire' country of Thailand against you, a fight you CANNOT win, no matter how it started. I've pulled a number of VERY stupid Farang away from such situations, occasionally at personal risk to myself. One last Christmas *intially* escaped a severe beating in the Nana carpark 2 am, but instead of going home came back for more and ended up in an ambulance unconsious after being VERY badley beaten around the head with a steel chair. He could have stayed away, he was given a second chance. He was a looser! :-(

[Bravo]

(trocks69 @ Jul. 21 2006,17:17) well from the responses it seems the thai's have a completely different mind set then the other asian countries i have been to...(never been to thailand)
their idea of face seems to be pretty different.


SB i really do understand face well i just never have dealt with thai's or been to their country. i

As someone who has lived and worked in various parts of Asia fo rmay years I can tell you that Thai face is not much different from elsewhere. And in your dealing with people you have been very lucky not to end up in acrumpled pile in a dark alley - there is just as much chance of this happening in Manila, Jakarta or elsewhere as there is in Bangkok.

Any westerner who says he understands face clearly doesn't. Talk to the guys who have lived here 30, 40 years or more and even they will tell you.

[Looker]

(Bravo @ Jul. 22 2006,23:25) Any westerner who says he understands face clearly doesn't. Talk to the guys who have lived here 30, 40 years or more and even they will tell you.

I'm with you all the way!
Been in Asia 20 years and given up understanding asians! Simply, a bit too different from my way of thinking both in business and in life.
Just enjoy the fun with women whenever possible and, more or less, getting some understanding with them.
Why should I waste my time in keeping guessing the next move? You do your own thing and they do theirs, once in a while you'll be on common ground and some business will come up and maybe some friendship too.
I find something ridiculous in those foreigners who are trying to imitate the locals and becoming even more extreme than them in their behaviours. Just make me

[stogie bear]

I find something ridiculous in those foreigners who are trying to imitate the locals and becoming even more extreme than them in their behaviours.

So do I! These fools think they are getting respect but they are either confusing the Thais or being laughed at by them.

The only Thais I ever interact with are shop assistants, waitresses or prostitutes. I don't have any inclination to be chums with the natives. There's not one that would interest me and most of them can name three English football teams and two football players, such is their grasp of world affairs!

In the years I have lived here I have not been into one temple (apart from the time I went to a funeral of a mate of mine.) I did try to go to The Grand Palace once but they close soon after lunch so fuck them.

I went to a bizarre zoo once on the third floor of a shopping mall. Can't remember where. The animals were kept in exptremely cruel conditions. Worse than a circus. Asian countries have no idea about animals and can't look after anything properly.

I like the weather and the cute girls/lbs and I can afford a comfortable life. That's why I am here. Culture is for pretentious young people with something to prove.

[Looker]

(stogie bear @ Jul. 23 2006,14:21) I don't have any inclination to be chums with the natives. There's not one that would interest me ....

I've been a bit luckier, but living in Asia four time longer than you there must be a probability factor involved then.

I met few persons, mostly artist, with whom I can more or less interact but that's only for a few hours at the time. I can't see sharing an holiday together or a long trip anyway..It will be just too

Call me narrow minded but I also have extreme difficulties in finding anything exciting and interesting to share with the locals except for with girl.

I live in Asia mostly because my business is oriented toward my physical presence being in the region. Also, can have an hassle free and relatively comfortable life but the brain stimuli are sure not in this part of the world, and not much to learn or enrich yourself in here. Watch the Discovery Channel then

[rob69in]

I lived in Hong Kong & Taiwan for a total of about 5 years & also taken about 3/4's of my holidays in Asia over the past 27-28yrs, in that time I have never understood the face deal, & nether some of my friends who have lived in Asia almost all there working lives, but I very, very quickly learnt to avoid confrontation, & also if you cause them to loose money, you can virtually not "recover" in there eyes. I never felt i was actually there friend I was simply very politely tolerated, & very well looked after while all was going well.

Out of all the Asian countrys I have visited the LOS is without doubt the nicest, with possibly the Phillippines a close second. ( I know there are plenty who do not like the Phillippines, & I admit its not a destination for all. ) But you are still really only being tolerated, after all, you are bringing in the money & thats got more to do with it than anything else.

I dispair at the sheer quantity of Euro drunken idiot ex Spanish / Greek package tour morons who have zero respect for anything or anyone flowing into the LOS. I quickly stopped going to these destinations about 25yrs ago to escape this type of scum, but this "disease" is now arriving in the LOS. I have watched them on numerous occassions cringing at the manner they conduct themselves & how patient the Thais can be with them. But ultimately the patience does not last forever & then they learn the hard way. I have very little sympathy for them once the beating comes, & as others have said you will never ever win. It has been said to me by GG's LB's & a few Mamasans the quality of the "new farangs" is very poor & they are very disrespectful, I have to agree.

Backpackers    aren't much better, clutching there Lonel Planet miss information books, ( probably as the Thais see them as cheap charlies with no money, is why they have little time for them. ) but this absurd statement some come out with about "finding themselves" always leaves me in histerics. They sort of  try & hang out with the locals, visit temples, & get into the culture of the country. I am sure the Thais would just rather they went away as they are not handing over any money. Talk about niave idiots.

For tho's travelling on the cheap because they have no money, I am 50 / 50 about, its better than being a drug taking beer swilling waster at home, but then again if you can't afford it, don't do it & at least try to keep yourself clean & semi respectable.

I have backed out of the very few confrontations that have taken place during my numerous country visits / travels, pretending it was my fault & being very appollogetic, this has always resulted living to "fight" another day. Unfortunately the trigger can be the most bizzare of things & can have been totally un intentional on your behalf, but unfortunately its not worth the hassle, walk away.

[69billy]

(rob69in @ Jul. 23 2006,18:51) I dispair at the sheer quantity of Euro drunken idiot ex Spanish / Greek package tour morons who have zero respect for anything or anyone flowing into the LOS. I quickly stopped going to these destinations about 25yrs ago to escape this type of scum, but this "disease" is now arriving in the LOS. I have watched them on numerous occassions cringing at the manner they conduct themselves & how patient the Thais can be with them. But ultimately the patience does not last forever & then they learn the hard way. I have very little sympathy for them once the beating comes, & as others have said you will never ever win. It has been said to me by GG's LB's & a few Mamasans the quality of the "new farangs" is very poor & they are very disrespectful, I have to agree.

Thats funy, the way they behave in Turkey is much different....
Midnight Express ....?

[rob69in]

Billy,

I don't think you get so much of the younger element in Turkey, last time i was in Cyprus there were more than a few there & behaving badly.

[Guest]

After more than 35 years in Thailand I have this to say. The chances are 99% that who will have no trouble in Thailand unless you start it. But if there is trouble you go the other way--fast. Never confront a Thai in a violent way because a few hours later 8 guys will jump you to death. Make friends with the locals in small ways, don't speak in a loud voice, and swallow your pride. Live everyday with a positive smile. Only take money that you can spend or lose happily. Learn the language, eat the food and make love.

[Guest]

Thais are very slow to anger but when they do-watch out. I dont care how big you are. I have seen it once , I was a bystander, and it was frightening-and I am from new york city!!! BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!!!

[Guest]

They don't call the place Land of Smiles for nothing. In any situation, keep your cool and a smile on your face and you will escape with dignity and health. There are some out and out cheats in Thailand and unfortunately they target foreigners, so you are bound to come across them. The main thing is keep your cool and either ignore them or withdraw smiling. Remember there a lot of good Thais, but they simply have very little to do with foreigners. Like many Asians in this part of the world, Thais are xenephobic and quite racist, yet because they are Thai always believe themselves to be the victims of racism. In any situation involving a farang and a Thai the farang is assumed to be in the wrong. A gross generalisation to be sure but one worth remembering as it helps you stay alive! Just remember, normally it is only about a few baht, you are on holiday, an asshole is always an asshole and the sooner you leave an ugly situation the better you will feel.

[shaggedout]

(stogie bear @ Jul. 23 2006,14:21) I went to a bizarre zoo once on the third floor of a shopping mall. Can't remember where. The animals were kept in exptremely cruel conditions. Worse than a circus. Asian countries have no idea about animals and can't look after anything properly.

I know that this is off-topic ........... but I also visited that zoo in the early eighties. If I remember correctly, it was located on the top floor of the Big Bell shopping complex which was situated on the site of the shopping complex near to the Marriott Hotel.

The Big Bell complex was apparently burnt down and all the animals perished.

[Guest]

(trocks69 @ Jul. 20 2006,13:38) i have never ran from one of these women or any man that has gotten mad because of a precieved loss of face. yet i see so many posters saying that they run away. . .
any time some one has gotten physicall with me they have been on the short end of the stick so to speak. could some one please clue me in to this. . .
i don't know the peoples age or physical shape here so can that have something to do with the thai's going ballistic on some of you all?

I find your query strange. You ask this as if you are an average sized farang, yet you reveal yourself to be 5'10" 270 lbs and a former powerlifter with martial arts training.

You probably encounter very few individuals anywhere in the world that would automatically make you back down.

I am 6'3" 290 lbs, but at the same time I am sure you would not be intimidated. Odds are (and you'd be right) that I have no martial arts experience. You would likely kick my ass in no time flat.

But if you started a fight with me (or even if I started it) in my local tavern or any of the local watering holes where I am known, you would quickly get you ass beat, even by people that don't even know my name. By the time the cops show up it would certainly all be your fault.

Why, then, is it so hard to understand that fights with locals in a foreign country should be avoided? You will always be the "outsider".
I feel that this is logic that doesn't require the understanding of "face" as practiced by Thais or other Asians.

-Charlie