Best heavyweight ever?

[JaiDee]

"In Kahuna we Trust"

[kahuna]

Basketball is the tough one...But Oscar Robertson, the only player ever to average a triple double over an entire season has gotta be up there near the top of the list...
As the best all around player he's at the top of mine...

[JaiDee]

I loved the "Big O"!!

Used to be a huge basketball fan when I was a lad, played it for 20 years also from about 5 to 25.

 Jerry West was a great pure shooter also, he had a good touch and awesome follow-through.

 When I was 12 or so I went to a basketball camp in Exeter for a week......The Bob Cousy camp for boys, which pretty much just had his name on it; he only visited once and gave us a lecture and then played in a pick-up game with the counselors, who were all Division 1-level college players and damn good in their own right.  Cousy mopped the floor with those guys and he was in his early 40's by then!!

 This is a good thread, we should have it renamed "best players in ALL sports ever"

[blonde_havoc]

The shot clock and three point lines have basically turned basketball into a much different game now than it once was. It's really hard to compare the older players to the newer players because of this. I wonder how many more points the older guys would have had if there was a three point line in their time.

[BlueBallz]

Not that I am the thread topic police but.......back to the subject of heavyweight fighters: The first Liston-Ali fight was in Miami Beach. Anyone remember the old Jackie Gleason Show- "LIVE FROM MIAMI BEACH!!"

Anyway one of the reasons the 2nd fight was in Lewiston, Maine was that NOBODY else wanted it. Clay had recently become Ali and was surrounded by the followers of that LOONY KAZOONY Founder of The Nation of Islam Elijah Muhammad. No one else wanted to touch it!!!

[BlueBallz]

BTW you would have thought that Liston AT LEAST would have taken a legit punch or two before he fell down FFS!!!!

[PigDogg]

(BlueBallz @ May 28 2010,13:21) Anyone remember the old Jackie Gleason Show- "LIVE FROM MIAMI BEACH!!"

''Hiya Joe! Hello Mister Donaghy!''

[kevin4252]

I remember when the Gleason show was from NYC, and also the brouhaha when he moved the show to Fla., it went lock, stock and barrell on a train of all things, with the Great One giving interviews on it.

[thaibound]

jackie gleason was a pretty great "heavyweight" himself. though i never actually saw him send alice "to the moon".

[Lefty]

(JaiDee @ May 29 2010,01:42)

(BlueBallz @ May 29 2010,01:22) Sonny Liston .....
 The first fight ...........Ali

STILL the only relevant thing to have ever  happened in Lewiston, Maine......a real craphole of a mill city just a stone's throw [a small stone] from the New Hampshire border.

  BB, the boxing expert around here......why the hell was that fight held in freaking MAINE??

I'm not the boxing expert, but I can read, so at least allow me to offer this explanation to your question...

Because of the unexpected ending of the first bout, the World Boxing Council ordered a rematch, this time with Liston as challenger. The World Boxing Association disagreed, as immediate rematches were against its rules, and stripped Ali of its title. Originally scheduled for Boston, Massachusetts in November 1964, the fight was postponed six months when Ali needed emergency surgery for a strangulated hernia. However, since the promoters did not have a license in Massachusetts, the fight eventually was moved to a small auditorium in Lewiston, Maine, the state's second largest city. Due to the remote location (140 miles north of Boston), only 2,434 fans were present, setting the all-time record for the lowest attendance for a heavyweight championship fight. (It remains the only heavyweight title fight held in the state of Maine.)

[Lefty]

(PigDogg @ May 29 2010,04:38)

(BlueBallz @ May 28 2010,13:21) Anyone remember the old Jackie Gleason Show- "LIVE FROM MIAMI BEACH!!"

''Hiya Joe! Hello Mister Donaghy!''

Frank Fontaine.

[Lefty]

(BlueBallz @ May 29 2010,01:22) Sonny Liston was Tyson BEFORE Tyson.  He was managed by the mob as a lot of fighters were back then.  The first fight was on the level.  Many thought Ali would get clobbered.  He was too athletic for Liston.  He frustrated him and evetually began to hit him quite hard. He made Liston quit on his stool.  

From what I have read, since I wasn't there like you were it's all I got to go by, Liston wasn't close to being in his best condition, because his manager and trainers didn't take Clay seriously.

Clay also wanted to quit after the 4th round, but his trainer, I think Dundee, literally pushed him back out into the ring.

Somewhere along the line, Liston hurt his shoulder. Not sure which one, but if it was the left one, he would no longer been effective anyway. The shoulder was why Liston didn't answer the bell in the 7th. Perhaps some think Liston faked the injury because he didn't want to fight anymore but that would be merely speculation.

Also, I think it is entirely too simplistic a description of Liston to say he was Tyson before Tyson. There were a lot of differences. One could probably do that comparing a lot of different pairs of fighters. Doesn't make it right or doesn't make it accurate.

[Lefty]

(kahuna @ May 29 2010,02:11) Basketball is the tough one...But Oscar Robertson, the only player ever to average a triple double over an entire season has gotta be up there near the top of the list...
As the best all around player he's at the top of mine...

I have to agree with the esteemed Kahuna here. I saw Big O play and he was pretty amazing. He never got the notoriety of Jordan, because he played on some mediocre teams. It was generally just him, Jerry Lucas and a bunch of middle road types on the old Cincinnati Royals.  

That franchise btw, may have the record for most different cities they've had as their home city.

Can anyone else think of a current pro sports team, NFL. MLB, NHL, NBA, that has called 4 different cities home? They were first Rochester, then Cincinnati, Kansas City (and if one wants to nitpick Kansas City-Omaha for part of that stretch, making it 5 cities) and then for the past 20 yrs or so, Sacramento.

[Lefty]

As to the original question of the thread, which I never gave my 2 bahts worth opinion to...the best heavyweight ever has to be be Rocky Marciano. Why? Professional record of 49-0.

One also has to consider Gene Tunney too. He never lost a heavyweight fight. His lone loss in a long career came while fighting as a light-heavyweight.

[Lefty]

(Dieter @ May 28 2010,03:24) Max Schmeling


Dieter

Maxie lost to Jethro Bodine's daddy though. Which infuriated Uncle Adolf, since Baer's father was part Jew. His Aryan superstar lost to someone whom Adolf considered genetically inferior, since he had Jewish blood.

Then in the 2nd fight with Louis, the Brown Bomber beat the living shit out of Max in one of the shortest heavyweight title fights ever. Adolf had to be steaming after that one too. A Negro beating an Aryan? Schmeling's manager boasted before the fight that they were going to use the prize money to build tanks for Nazi Germany.