Do you think Obama is going to get re-elected?

[Jake_Sully]

The Independents usually vote republican but can be swayed to democrats. A lot of real republicans are registered democrats to select the weaker candidates and then vote republican when it really counts. Yes many people voted for Obama over Hillary in the primary because they thought Hillary would be unbeatable by the republicans.

There are a few independent parties. Ralph Nader is head of the Green Party. Bob Barr ran on the conservative party.

A lot of people don't vote and a lot are just sheep. For example say voting ends on Nov 4th. If you're a republican vote on Nov 4th. If you're a democrat vote on Nov 5th.

Out of a country of 310 million, I'd say 50-70 million are minors unable to vote. 20 million are illegal aliens. The rest just don't vote or aren't interested. A lot of people live in states that're safe locks. For example I'm in New York and the last time it swung was for Reagan. My parents don't bother voting since they know it'll be a democrat winning from their state anyways. I bet there are a lot of people like that.

Also we have a lot of expatriates and soldiers serving abroad who vote through mail in. But that vote is generally trashed and not counted if the total vote differential margin is greater than the mail in vote numbers. For example if a person is leading by 1000 votes but 800 mail in votes are yet to be counted, they ignore them since it won't change the vote.

[kahuna]

(Chinaman @ Aug. 15 2010,06:03) I was more looking at the outcome.

Sorry...I thought you were referring to registered voters by party...

Obviously the Independents have a say in who gets elected (although I don't believe that they have a voice in deciding who runs on each party ticket...But a candidate can run as an Independent)...And obviously, the Democrats don't always vote along party lines...And, come election day, traditionally more Republicans will vote than Democrats...

And you are correct...Many citizens don't bother to register and/or vote...I'm one of the many...In my mind that gives me license to be critical of everyone...In truth I don't give a rat's ass...Nothing much changes in my personal life whether Republicans or Democrats rule...

The more things change, the more they stay the same...

Although I suspect if Palin is elected, she will fly the Arizona border shooting illegals...The new American sport...

[gordo68]

Well, I will frankly say that I expected that someone would have attempted an assassination on Obama by this point in time. But since no one has, I will guess that he will probably get re-elected if the economy shows any kind of uptick by the time re-election comes around. The Repubs are just not doing anything that could be called constructive, they are bitching about things that they had hands in creating and then working like hell to shift the blame, nothing more. I am not an Obama lover by any means, but I am so disappointed in the way the GOP has reacted to the challenges that America is facing that I have no other choice. Oh yeah, and Palin has to be the stupidest bitch to ever come down the pike! Why oh why did the GOP not hang their hat on Condoleeza if they really wanted a female on the ticket? She at least had some sort of intelligence factor that the other moron did not.

[Torurot]

(Bumpa STIKKA @ Aug. 14 2010,21:20) But the Repubs are in such a mess. They'll never fully recover from the Palin embarrassment.

Never 'misunderestimate' stupid. They voted for the other one..... twice

[Ivor Biggun]

(seanbeag7 @ Aug. 14 2010,21:24) I don't agree with those bloody muslims building a mosque anywhere near gound zero, that would be the same thing like a prick like the pope going over to the middle of a muslim community and building a huge church, then telling them to accept all religions, they would nail the stupid fucker to a cross and the burn the church.


So all i say is if the muslims want to build a mosque, fuck off and build in your own backyard, and stop trying to shove the korn down people throats.


that's just my 2 cents worth.  

So, all Muslims are bad because of the actions of a few? Does that include US muslim police officers, firefighters, members of the military, etc. Collective punishment- I remember someone else trying that a few years ago (and another country is practicing it at the moment). Their own back yard to thousands of muslims IS in the suburbs and cities of the US, why shouldn't they have a place to worship? The more muslims are demonised the more likely they are to kick back

Interesting that it was Sarah the wack job and prominent Jewish politicians who were opposing it, Bloomberg supported it

[DexterH]

McChrystal voted for Obama and was not directly quoted in the Rolling Stone article, he got lobbed because of what other people claimed he said and thought.
I doubt he would surface on the other side or want the greater liability of being saddled (ha ha) with Ms Palin (does her husband still work for BP Alaska?).

Islam at the moment resembles what Communism was in the 1950s, the people behind the Mosque project in lower Manhattan are the polar opposite of al-Qaeda but as with the 1950s the mere fact that they are Muslims is becoming the issue, regardless of the fact that Muslims were also killed in the twin towers and have as much right to be aggrieved -9/11 was a political act, not a religious one.

The Republicans dont seem to have anyone with the gravitas to attract enough votes to oust enough Democrats, and the 'Tea Party' effect has been to provide the GOP with some very weird candidates like Dan Maes in Colorado who thinks the bike-sharing scheme in Denver is part of a UN plot to deprive Americans of their freedom; Sharron Angle in Nevada who thinks Scientology is one way of rehabiliating prisoners; while others continue the Bush legacy belief that we are in the 'end times'; etc etc. Apparently most Tea Party sympathisers are white, male and 45+ and about 18% of the US electorate -enough to split the Republican vote. In the cold light of day, there are enough people to re-elect Obama.

[Jake_Sully]

 

Actions of a few? Well actions do tend to speak louder than words.

In contrast can you please name some moderate Muslims that are willing to ostracize their fanatical religious brethren in public or say their actions are shameful or better yet are they willing to be human shields against them? Are they willing to hunt them down because it tarnishes their moderate and peaceful religion's reputation?

Ivor, I judge people by their actions but here I judge them by the lack there of so I find myself agreeing with sean.

[Rocket J. Squirrel]

(Ivor Biggun @ Aug. 15 2010,22:42) why shouldn't they have a place to worship?

Of course the muslims should have places to worship. It is simply that their place does not have to be located at Ground Zero. Why not argue in favor of scrapping the whole idea in favor of putting a Catholic church or a Jewish synagogue there. Lets build a memorial to those who died (all faiths) and let the religions have their huge houses of worship nearby, if necessary, but not there.

[El_hefe]

Freedom of religion, freedom of speech, press, etc..... those rights are there for the unpopular ones, not the ones we all agree on. I applaud Obama for standing up for this principle, also since it's August & a dead news cycle his opinion is going to get pilloried & distorted up until Labor Day here in the US, actually right up until the 9-11 anniversary.

The Repub's are going to go to town over this remark - even as they are denying the health insurance benefits for the 9-11 emergency responders who are starting to get sick & die now.

[Steff]

I agree and think your sense is right.

[Torurot]

Stop the lies!!

The "mosque"  IS NOT at ground zero!

From http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/
Arthur Silber at

Obama said: €œAnd that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances,€ he said. €œThis is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are.€

"On the subject of the "mosque," Tom Knapp
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2010/0...tmus-test.html explains the two huge lies at the center of this invented controversy with admirable clarity. It's not a "mosque" using the commonly understood meaning of that term, and it's not planned to be built on Ground Zero. Knapp includes a little Google Map so you can see that it's not on Ground Zero. As Knapp also points out (he doesn't phrase it this way, because he's far more polite than I am), if you want to be consistent in your opposition to the "mosque," get rid of the goddamned Roman Catholic Church that's even closer to Ground Zero than the planned Cordoba House. (I put goddamned in there just to be certain that any unsuspecting passersby are deeply offended, as well as irreparably damaged. At least, I hope they're irreparably damaged.)

Not a mosque. Not on Ground Zero. Therefore, no controversy."


"But if someone were to propose building a gigantic actual mosque right smack in the middle of Ground Zero, let's have that debate! I would welcome it. And given the U.S. government's ongoing campaign of slaughter and destruction targeted at Muslims in various locations around the world, a real mosque at Ground Zero would be a serious gesture of reconciliation, if that word were finally to have some genuine meaning. Of course, the action that would be most meaningful, as well as most humane and entirely right, would be the complete cessation of that campaign of slaughter and destruction...

But, God, I wish a real mosque at Ground Zero would happen, or even be proposed. Just think of all the racist, bigoted heads exploding..."

[Rocket J. Squirrel]

You are correct Torurot.  The proposed mosque is not at Ground Zero

[seanbeag7]

FFS being about 2 blocks away from ground is a hell of a lot closer than u guys seem to mention.

I am sorry but i don't want any religion to build any type of building near ground zero, either make it a plaza or a park, but no religion should claim ownership over it.

Ivor, why i stated that i hate muslims, was from what a few of them said to me one day, i was sitting in a cafe having a chat with a friend, and my friend picked up a magazine with a article on about 9/11, so we talked about how sad it was and as we left the cafe.

A group of muslim men came up to us and said that one of them had over-heard us talking about 9/11, so this prick then said that 9/11 was not a sad thing but a great thing for muslims, and now the rest of the world should be worried about messing with muslims like these 4 guys.

Well i grabbed my friends arm and shoulder pushed that asshole out of my way, i was trying so hard to hold my temper, cause all i really wanted to do was throw that arrogant muslim asshole on the ground and stamp on his face a couple of times.

sorry i know i am gone but i just had to explain myself.

[Jake_Sully]

(Torurot @ Aug. 16 2010,05:05) But, God, I wish a real mosque at Ground Zero would happen, or even be proposed. Just think of all the racist, bigoted heads exploding..."

I don't think its racist. Russian Chechyans are white as milk and they're Muslim.

The Caucasian Front is Muslim.

It has nothing to do with the color of skin unfortunately, it has everything to do with their ideology of "kafir".

Kafir literally translates into whoever doesn't believe in Allah and his writings in the Koran. Unlike other religions which are moderate and say there is 1 god and following any religion is a way to heaven, i.e. they can tolerate the other, Islam has no tolerance. To kill a kafir gives more heaven and virgin points. And its their way or the highway.

Perhaps you've read of the 2000+ year old buddha statues that were destroyed by the Muslims because they didn't agree with their religion?

Perhaps you've read history? If not I quote you something that has been written by English historians that were neutral:

"In the summer of 1675, the Guru, along with some of his companions were finally brought to Delhi and asked to convert to Islam or else face the penalty of death. The Guru was also asked to perform a miracle.  Guru Tegh Bahadur  averred that he would rather sacrifice his life than give up his faith and his freedom or belief or perform a miracle. Thus, under Aurangzeb's orders, The Guru and his companions were tortured. The Guru was chained and imprisoned in a cage and was tortured in the cruellest and the most inhuman ways for five long days. In order to terrorise him further into submission, one of his distinguished devotees (Bhai Mati Das) was sawn alive, another (Bhai Dyal Das) was boiled in the cauldron and the third (Bhai Sati Das) was roasted alive before the Guru.

Finally, the Guru himself was beheaded, under imperial warrant, in broad daylight, in the middle of a public square, the most prominent public place in India, called Chandni Chowk, of Delhi, on the charge that he was a stumbling block preventing the spread of Islam in the Indian subcontinent. The exact location of the beheading is marked by Gurdwara Sis Ganj in Delhi."

A second account:

"The Sikhs were subjected to tortures before being executed. Their heads were then impaled on spears and arranged in a circle round Banda who was now squatting on the ground. There were hundreds of spectators standing around watching this scene. Here they made him paraded around the tomb of late emperor Bahadur Shah and put him to a barbarous death.

Banda Singh was then given a short sword and ordered to kill his own son Ajai Singh. As he sat unperturbed, the executioner moved forward and plunged his sword into the little child cutting the hody into two. Then pieces of flesh were cut from the body and thrown in Banda's face. His liver was removed and thrust into Banda Singh's mouth. The father sat through all this without any signs of emotion. His powers of endurance were to be tested still further.

The executioner then stepped forward and thrust the point of his dagger into Banda's right eye, pulling out the eyeball. He then pulled out the other eyeball. Banda sat through all this as still as a rock. His face gave no twitch of pain.

The executioner then took his sword and slashed off Banda's left foot, then both his arms. But Banda's features were still calm as if he was at peace. Finally they tore off his flesh with red-hot pincers, and there being nothing else left in their book of tortures, they cut his body up into a hundred pieces, and were satisfied. (These details of the torture are given in full, by the following writers: Mohammed Harisi, Khafi Khan, Thornton, Elphinstone, Daneshwar and others).

The ambassadors of the East India company, John Surman and Edward Stephenson, who were in Delhi then and had witnessed these massacres, wrote to the governor of Fort William: "It is not a little remarkable with what patience Sikhs undergo their fate, and to the last it has not been found that one apostatized from his new formed religion. "

On June 9th , came the turn of Banda Singh. Harshest torments had been reserved for him. His eyes were pulled out and his hands and feet chopped off. His flesh was torn with red hot pincers. The end came, mercifully for him with the executioner's axe falling on his neck."

I can present more examples if you need. Its a well known fact Islam didn't spread far and wide because it was the religion of peace and love, it was because if people didn't convert they'd kill the males, rape the women and leave the muslim offspring to rule the country.

And you are calling those of us who oppose Islam racist or bigoted. Perhaps you'd like to retract your statement. People who do not learn from lessons in history are doomed to repeat it.

Is building a mosque anywhere close to ground zero really celebrating the 1st amendment or our idiocy and lack of willingness to learn from the past and the past isn't 400 years old, its not even 9 years old in this case.

[DexterH]

In contrast can you please name some moderate Muslims that are willing to ostracize their fanatical religious brethren in public or say their actions are shameful or better yet are they willing to be human shields against them? Are they willing to hunt them down because it tarnishes their moderate and peaceful religion's reputation?

Too many to mention but you can find some here since you won't find most of them quoted in the 'Western' press:
http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

The FT last weekend covered this topic well; maybe the owner of the building should sell it and re-locate the planned mosque elsewhere in Manhattan, but I doubt it would satisfy the Tea Party nutters or 'friends' of Israel.