Advertising in France

[olekunde]

Maybe Manarak can give an update of what's happening in France?
Will the french ads and reviews be up again?

[manarak]

very stupid story.

The french have an antiquated law on pimping.
If the law is applied, any help to a prostitute is considered pimping.
This is punished by criminal law with up to 7 years of prison and 150.000 EUR fine.

Until now, I thought it legal for prostitutes to pay for their ads to be published on a swiss site, and the french authorities sure let the public think that internet ads were tolerated.
There are so many sites, even managed from within France, and in 2007, the ministry of interior even conceded that publishing ads on internet wasn't even considered "hooking"...

Apparently not so, as the owner of a Swiss site was setup (you read correctly - setup) by french police and arrested.
He has now been sitting in prison for over a month and french authorities give no details as to why, except that there are pimping charges.


This is all the more surprising, as there are also quite a lot of french companies publishing sex ads, among which a Paris-based paper which contains only 100% sex ads.
Why they chose to prosecute the owner of a foreign site instead of beginning with shutting down the french operations is beyond me.


Many french have a troubled relationship to money in general and to paid sex particularly.

Many are very jealous of rich people and think it is not normal that some people with money can make more of their life than people without money.

Leave a nice Mercedes or Porsche unguarded in a street of central Moscow or Kiev at night - there will be no problem.
Leave one in Paris and you will likely find it in the morning completely scratched and with flat tires.
While in most countries success inspires respect, in France success inspires jealousy and violence.

Some french people disrespect sex workers and treat them like shit.

There also has been a strong feminist movement in France, which led to the adoption of those inadequate laws.

The activity of prostitution is allowed, and prostitutes must pay taxes, but the following things aren't allowed:
- for a prostitute to wear suggestive clothes and wait for customers in a street known for prostitution
- for a prostitute to advertize her services in any way
- brothels
- hotels are not allowed to rent rooms to prostitutes
- apartment owners are not allowed to rent apartments to prostitutes knowingly
- bar owners are not allowed to let prostitutes use the bar
- for a webmaster to make a site (even for free) for a prostitute
- for a webhoster to host a prostitute's website
- for a prostitutes's husband or boyfriend to use part of his wife's earnings (like living in the same apartment, thus using/sharing space, or eating food bought with the proceeds of prostitution)
- for newspapers to publish massage ads (although this is often done)

the list goes on and on, and is simply ridiculous for a country that supposedly upholds people's LIBERTY.



The ads may come back when legal risks will have been reasonably reduced either by clarification of the french authorities' position that they do not intend to harm internet advertizing sites or by a judicial decision in this case stating that a french court is not competent in this matter because the deeds have been comitted in Switzerland (but I don't count on that).

More probably, I guess the french investigating judge tries to indict the Swiss guy with regular pimping using the publication of sex ads just as a formal reason to keep him in prison.
If the judge succeeds in doing that, then I suspect the charge of ad publication will be dropped, and we will again have a grey situation where we don't know if the french will prosecute Swiss site owners or not.


Why the french ministry of interior cannot simply state their position on what they want to prosecute and what not, I don't know.
Such are the french ways.

[olekunde]

Holy crap. I do not like the sound of this at all. Is this meant to be permanent or will it go after a while(ie has this happened before)?
Regarding "- for a prostitute to wear suggestive clothes and wait for customers in a street known for prostitution". Is this the end of Bois de Bolougne? Or has BdB dead for a long time already?

[manarak]

no BdB is still very alive, but the police is very present

Personally I think that the ads will be back relatively soon.

[olekunde]

Thanks for the good update. I am more than keen to check out the Paris scene. About 8 years ago I had an encounter on Rue St Denis from a odd TS among the african girls. Took a taxi back to her place. Nothing spectacular, but not a rip-off either. From the reviews on transgirls the Paris scene look very promising. Hope all will be back alive soon. Cheers!

[mister_smith]

(manarak @ Oct. 30 2009,11:21) Leave a nice Mercedes or Porsche unguarded in a street of central Moscow or Kiev at night - there will be no problem.
Leave one in Paris and you will likely find it in the morning completely scratched and with flat tires.
While in most countries success inspires respect, in France success inspires jealousy and violence.

Bullshit! Walk around Moscow in a decent pair of trainers and you'll be lucky not to get your feet chopped off.

[huanzhen]

very stupid story.
As French let me answer you without hate and animosity
The french have an antiquated law on pimping.
If the law is applied, any help to a prostitute is considered pimping.
This is punished by criminal law with up to 7 years of prison and 150.000 EUR fine.

yes, we have law, like in sweden,danemark toward prostitution in general....but if in france we have so many laws, we are the n°1 for never applicated the law, also look how many french live in switzerland for shaped the law

Until now, I thought it legal for prostitutes to pay for their ads to be published on a swiss site, and the french authorities sure let the public think that internet ads were tolerated.
yes but Sarkozy is president since may 2007 and many things has changed, this a......e "tolerated nothing and like to show he can take care of all french against teh rest of the world.;syndrome Asterix, so maybe  you want to shout vive chirac?
There are so many sites, even managed from within France, and in 2007, the ministry of interior even conceded that publishing ads on internet wasn't even considered "hooking"...
you re not coming in france from May 2007 bro, many website are  now based out of france ,some very good website, where ever customers rates ladyboys are widely available try this one: http://niamodel.com/main/trans you will  find all you need to know, ever prices,100% free, in action from many years

Apparently not so, as the owner of a Swiss site was setup (you read correctly - setup) by french police and arrested.
He has now been sitting in prison for over a month and french authorities give no details as to why, except that there are pimping charges.
maybe this swiss guy was to confident for doing such kind of business wisely, before Thaskin ,thailand was also more tolerant with farang,with visa,with nightlife..thaksin has change it, like sarkozy did it in france


This is all the more surprising, as there are also quite a lot of french companies publishing sex ads, among which a Paris-based paper which contains only 100% sex ads.
paris boum boum
Why they chose to prosecute the owner of a foreign site instead of beginning with shutting down the french operations is beyond me.
maybe your unfortunate friend was targeted for being an exemple..Our F.....g president like to show us he cares about everything- just look how he acted during french presidence of european union)


Many french have a troubled relationship to money in general
yes you are right
and to paid sex particularly.
you re totally wrong, and france is one of the most expensive country in europe for sex

Many are very jealous of rich people and think it is not normal that some people with money can make more of their life than people without money.
you simplified a lot, i will tell you, that rich french are 100 times more arrogant than rich anglo saxon, during my trips in asia, i ve meeted and talk with doctors,engineer, computer scientist from usa,canada,england...all of them was friendly,open mind,not judging book by it s cover...that will be almost impossible with french...a doctor will hardly make friend with an employee or a waiter ever on trip
French aristocratie is well alive in france

Leave a nice Mercedes or Porsche unguarded in a street of central Moscow or Kiev at night - there will be no problem.
Leave one in Paris and you will likely find it in the morning completely scratched and with flat tires.
i disagree, you give a false exemple, like everywhere in the world, it will depend where you parked your car,
leave a porsche in bronx or harlem in NYC or in brixton area(london), are you sure your car will be there again or in just one piece?

While in most countries success inspires respect, in France success inspires jealousy and violence.
i agree

Some french people disrespect sex workers and treat them like shit.
what you talking about?

There also has been a strong feminist movement in France, which led to the adoption of those inadequate laws.
fully agree with you

The activity of prostitution is allowed, and prostitutes must pay taxes, but the following things aren't allowed:
- for a prostitute to wear suggestive clothes and wait for customers in a street known for prostitution
what you write has no sense , in this case any girl with mini skirt is considerated as hooker, you said we have no red light area..so what is a street knowing for prostitution?
- for a prostitute to advertize her services in any way
right, it s what we called "racolage"
- brothels
yes we havent
- hotels are not allowed to rent rooms to prostitutes
asked to go to hotel with any hookers, many motel open 24/24 have vending machine working as receptionist
- apartment owners are not allowed to rent apartments to prostitutes knowingly
go to rue saint denis in paris( a lousy place ) and go to their  rental appartement for your short time....
- bar owners are not allowed to let prostitutes use the bar
go to american bar, and see with your eyes
- for a webmaster to make a site (even for free) for a prostitute
yes and no...some site like viva street...are full of hookers offered escort or service but prices are never mentioned..you have to call the girls or the ladyboy for knowing the nature of the service
- for a webhoster to host a prostitute's website
- for a prostitutes's husband or boyfriend to use part of his wife's earnings (like living in the same apartment, thus using/sharing space, or eating food bought with the proceeds of prostitution)
you re right
- for newspapers to publish massage ads (although this is often done)
you can see by yourself we don t applicated our laws

question about re-open brothel( maison close) is still recurent from 3 decades, but  officialy hookers doesn t want to work there and wish to stay independant...don t forget that during the 70' s hookers tired of being beated, and stoled by their pimps  have turn against  them , and thousand of pimps was sended in jail,
so yes the law about prostitution is stupid on the paper, and it s because our laws are most the time stupid that we, french learned how to shaped the law.


actualy most of hookers come from east europe and they are contrlloed by mafiosi pimp, african hookers is another story, they seemed indepandant,but they are not

the list goes on and on, and is simply ridiculous for a country that supposedly upholds people's LIBERTY.
what do you think about US governement liberty lessons to the rest of the world? or simply how Switzerland  pretend to a vertuous with laundy money?  don t thinked all the french are the same, france is ruling by aristocrate, not all the french are aristocrate


The ads may come back when legal risks will have been reasonably reduced either by clarification of the french authorities' position that they do not intend to harm internet advertizing sites or by a judicial decision in this case stating that a french court is not competent in this matter because the deeds have been comitted in Switzerland (but I don't count on that).

More probably, I guess the french investigating judge tries to indict the Swiss guy with regular pimping using the publication of sex ads just as a formal reason to keep him in prison.
If the judge succeeds in doing that, then I suspect the charge of ad publication will be dropped, and we will again have a grey situation where we don't know if the french will prosecute Swiss site owners or not.
Why the french ministry of interior cannot simply state their position on what they want to prosecute and what not, I don't know.
Such are the french ways.

so said to your friend to be wise and considerated business in switzerland is not the same as business in france

[manarak]

ooh - so we agree on many points

et je suis très au fait des lois et réalités francaises cher ami, mais continuons en anglais pour divertir nos amis anglophones.


but let's treat mister smith first - easy.

(manarak @ Oct. 30 2009,11:21) Leave a nice Mercedes or Porsche unguarded in a street of central Moscow or Kiev at night - there will be no problem.
Leave one in Paris and you will likely find it in the morning completely scratched and with flat tires.
While in most countries success inspires respect, in France success inspires jealousy and violence.

Bullshit! Walk around Moscow in a decent pair of trainers and you'll be lucky not to get your feet chopped off.
tak... skajitie poshalusta Mr. Smith, skolka raz te gulal po moskve ili po kieve v tchass notche?


and now let's come back to the french situation I am having over here in Switzerland:

Until now, I thought it legal for prostitutes to pay for their ads to be published on a swiss site, and the french authorities sure let the public think that internet ads were tolerated.
>> yes but Sarkozy is president since may 2007 and many things has changed, this a......e "tolerated nothing and like to show he can take care of all french against teh rest of the world.;syndrome Asterix, so maybe you want to shout vive chirac?
(...)
you re not coming in france from May 2007 bro, many website are now based out of france ,some very good website, where ever customers rates ladyboys are widely available try this one: http://niamodel.com/main/trans you will find all you need to know, ever prices,100% free, in action from many years

actually I liked Chirac. he had his shortcomings, but he was human.
Sarkozy is President since may 2007, and as early as June 2007 his minister of internal affairs replied offically to an inquiry of the Assemblee Nationale that internet ads or sites are not considered "hooking" (racolage).
Question N° : 120870 de M. Godfrain Jacques
Question publiée au JO le : 20/03/2007 page : 2820
Réponse publiée au JO le : 19/06/2007 page : 4746

And yes, I know Niamodel and most of the others.

This is all the more surprising, as there are also quite a lot of french companies publishing sex ads, among which a Paris-based paper which contains only 100% sex ads.
>> paris boum boum

I was thinking about La Vie Parisienne, didn't know PBB.

Many french have a troubled relationship to money in general
>> yes you are right
and to paid sex particularly.
>> you re totally wrong, and france is one of the most expensive country in europe for sex

Well, I've run french sexforums for over 10 years (along with german and english forums), and the french forums were the only ones where prostitutes were insulted very badly and regularly. The other forums run by webmasters I know (i.e. escortfr.net, youppie, niamodel, etc.) have the same problem!
And if the french have a normal relationship to paid sex, why all this abuse and why has France the highest prices?
Our interpretations may differ, but all I can say is "very strange".

Many are very jealous of rich people and think it is not normal that some people with money can make more of their life than people without money.
>> you simplified a lot, i will tell you, that rich french are 100 times more arrogant than rich anglo saxon, during my trips in asia, i ve meeted and talk with doctors,engineer, computer scientist from usa,canada,england...all of them was friendly,open mind,not judging book by it s cover...that will be almost impossible with french...a doctor will hardly make friend with an employee or a waiter ever on trip
French aristocratie is well alive in france

Well, yeah, I simplified - didn't want to write a book!
I won't argue with you that a lot of rich french people are arrogant - true.

Leave a nice Mercedes or Porsche unguarded in a street of central Moscow or Kiev at night - there will be no problem.
Leave one in Paris and you will likely find it in the morning completely scratched and with flat tires.
>> i disagree, you give a false exemple, like everywhere in the world, it will depend where you parked your car,
leave a porsche in bronx or harlem in NYC or in brixton area(london), are you sure your car will be there again or in just one piece?

Well, I witnessed both of my examples personally more than a couple of times.
I'm talking about central Moskow (around tverskaja, arbat, bolchaia nikitskaja, pushkin cinema, etc.) and very central Kiev (around lutheranskaya, shovkovychna).
For Paris, I mean champ de Mars/Invalides. I think these areas of the three cities can be compared in terms of safety.
Parking of the car is just in the street, on a public parking space.

Some french people disrespect sex workers and treat them like shit.
>> what you talking about?

see above. the amount of abuse taken by the girls is unbelievable. also in private messages or SMS, as I could witness myself.
Many messages like "dirty brazilian favela-whore, I will work on your face with a knife" etc. Sometimes without threats, but more abusive.

the list goes on and on, and is simply ridiculous for a country that supposedly upholds people's LIBERTY.
>> what do you think about US governement liberty lessons to the rest of the world? or simply how Switzerland pretend to a vertuous with laundy money? don t thinked all the french are the same, france is ruling by aristocrate, not all the french are aristocrate

I avoid visiting the US of A.

Since I worked at a Swiss bank, I can tell you there is no money laundering in Switzerland. There hasn't been for years.
Tax evasion, yes. Money laundering no.

But in any case I value liberty much more than virtue.
There is no virtue when one doesn't have the liberty to misbehave
(I just made this phrase up, I would like a copyright on that please).

don t thinked all the french are the same, france is ruling by aristocrate, not all the french are aristocrate

as arrogant as the aristocrats may be - jealousy doesn't come from their side.

so said to your friend to be wise and considerated business in switzerland is not the same as business in france

People say he stopped all classical pimping activity last year.
The guy doesn't have any apartments anymore and doesn't employ prostitutes.
And as far as I know, he was never stupid enough to conduct these activities in France!
Apparently, the online ads are used to indict him.
I would just like to see if the charge of pimping because of online ads is upheld.

[manarak]

sorry, I forgot to react on that one:

- for a prostitute to wear suggestive clothes and wait for customers in a street known for prostitution
>> what you write has no sense , in this case any girl with mini skirt is considerated as hooker, you said we have no red light area..so what is a street knowing for prostitution?

Sarkozy's law introducing "passive hooking" ('racolage passif') makes no sense either!

[huanzhen]

Dear manarak

je ne doute pas que vous soyez au fait des lois et des réalites françaises mais je pense sans vouloir vous faire offense que certaines spécificités vous échappe

but continued our conversation in english

i was minding if your post is the following of french/swiss conflict started near annemasse( so called in newspaper swiss pimp arrested) and following with the election of nationalist( if we can said that) claiming" stop a la racaille" or "frontalier go home""....i ve read some comments on la tribune de geneve...if i know french people are by nature arrogant, and rude  i was surprised that swiss people can fall so low and equal us.
For info Chirac is now faced a judge ..;the fact is since De gaulle all our president was corrupted, have mistress...and the last one  in more think he is the reincarnation of Napoleon,

As i told you before in france we voted laws for mainly not applicated it..look the new law about internet downloading..;called hadopi...french governement is so proud to claim they will tamed internet..but before this law we have davdesi and others, never applicated..i don t talk about  having small amount of ganja in your pocket..by the law you must be jailed, but claiming personal use,you just risk the destruction of your ganja

racollage passif let me laugh..in france we are strong for creating new expressions (french language is very creative no?)...raccollage passif mean nothing ..take main road in france and you  will see camping car with girls working inside...;which is supposed to be racolage passif...bois de boulogne is still action despite many minister action..go there at night it s "racolage intensif" all night; if cops  will applicated the law there will be raid all night

About french sex ads newspaper let me tell you one thing...the interpretation of the law is very slim...ever some magazine like "swing "that are supposed to be for consentant adult.have" pro " played their trade inside..what i mean is: the police just need a complaint from somebody to close a website,a magazine,newspaper for prostitution..thats why many newspaper always mentioned if somebody asked you money write us we will banned her/him
law give large interpretation for cops,ministre,prefet...and

And if the french have a normal relationship to paid sex, why all this abuse and why has France the highest prices?

i m sorry i read newspapers everyday and i dont see prostitutes beated, or killed..but for sure there is some" war" between pimp...that s why sometimes you can see some burned caravane accross our roads,
maybe you mean french always shouted when somebody paid more than the regular prices? but in this case it s like that everywhere

for the highest prices? it s simple the lack of competition is responsable..i will give you a simple fact...until the 1990 the cheapest bj you can get costed you 30 euros(200 francs) and fj around 65 euro(400 francs) for 15 minutes in provincial town, then the eastern girls arrived and prices drop to 40 euros for fj, service upgrade too..eastern girl take off their clothes, accepted daty,nipples suck without supplement....remember at this time in many  french city "french national prostitutes" make desmontration in the street claiming eastern girl spoiled the market with low prices  
Now i will said eastern girls are like the  french prostitute...

see above. the amount of abuse taken by the girls is unbelievable. also in private messages or SMS, as I could witness myself.
Many messages like "dirty brazilian favela-whore, I will work on your face with a knife" etc. Sometimes without threats, but more abusive.

go to isg,wsg etc..you will see that many people all around the world have problem with prostitutes and used bad word for calling them..i don t think it s worst than other country...but as foreigner i can understand you have different view on my country( it will be the same for me with your country)

Since I worked at a Swiss bank, I can tell you there is no money laundering in Switzerland. There hasn't been for years.
Tax evasion, yes. Money laundering no

tax evasion for sure( please keep our national "hasbeen" johnny halliday at home at leat he doesnt sing), but for money laudering don t tell me it s non existent.. criminalist via financial montage get money in swirtzerland...but i can believe swiss bank try to eradicated it

as arrogant as the aristocrats may be - jealousy doesn't come from their side.

i think you are wrong and thailand  is a perfect exemple for that...is thaksin was ousted by poorest or by bangkok aristocratie?
But for sure jealousy came mainly from people that get less..but isn t like that everywhere in the world?

People say he stopped all classical pimping activity last year.
The guy doesn't have any apartments anymore and doesn't employ prostitutes.
And as far as I know, he was never stupid enough to conduct these activities in France!
Apparently, the online ads are used to indict him.
I would just like to see if the charge of pimping because of online ads is upheld.

is this story i heard happening in annemasse?...as in france the internet law is primitive and blurred...i thinked cops will try to charged your  friend for being intermediary....but i m not sure judge will followed cops..;look gerard menou( the ex boss of defi) he was charged of the worst things  and he s still free

 But despit stupid law, there is sex scene in france...no good as spain or germany,netherland but not worst as sweden,norway,denmark....but maybe in 20 years who knows?..it will be better

[huanzhen]

i forgot 2 things

I avoid visiting the US of A.

you should reconsiderated your position ,USA is one the best and beautiful country i ve visited in my life
American government and american people are 2 different things...

Since I worked at a Swiss bank,

isnt funny a conversation between a swiss banker and a french employee from "la france d'en bas"? you know the same that was insulted as racaille by sarkozy