9/11 Conspiracy? Or did we get the truth?

[Guest]

[quote]
(travis bickle @ Oct. 29 2009,07:07) [quote=JaiDee,Oct. 29 2009,06:00]

I am merely pointing out that if there  is any cover up in the 9/11 events,it is the pentagon incidents that draw my attention. I never said the french did it,please dont twist my words to make a cheap shot-i said they first mooted the possibility it was a missile.Have you never heard  THAT before-if so,you surprise me.There is such a lack of cctv/video incident as well-isnt that surprising?.As i said before in previous posts,the only part of the 9/11 that doesnt hold water for me ,is the pentagon incident.Is n't healthy to question what we're told ?.Did you believe the "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit they fed us from the word go? The trouble is...not enough people question what they're told.

You would think pictures of airplane debris on the Pentagon Lawn would be enough evidence even for the skeptical.

[pacman]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 29 2009,06:00) ...same as the JFK debacle and aliens and ghosts and other weird shit...

As conspiracy theories go, the Pentagon crash isn't in the same league as the JFK assassination.

I did hear of the suggestion that it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon but a missile, but that idea was dismissed almost as soon as it was mentioned.

It fails on so many levels. For starters, what happened to the American Airlines flight? Where DID the plane get to?

On the CCTV footage that made it to air, the nose of the plane can be seen in one frame, it was going too fast to be caught by the camera, more than likely if the camera was filming at one frame per second.

Add the many eye witness accounts, the size of the hole that the plane made to the Pentagon, the debris that was recovered from the site plus no other explanation for where the plane went otherwise & it is safe to conclude that hijackers succeeded with their plan.

Thank heaven the 4th plane never made it to its intended target. As sad as it is that the passengers & crew all perished, imagine the psychological blow to the US psyche had it hit the White House?

Even now, 8 years after the events of 9/11, it still seems unreal that such an audacious plan was as successful as it was.

[Guest]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 29 2009,07:21)

(travis bickle @ Oct. 29 2009,07:07) Did you believe the "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit they fed us from the word go?.

No, I didn't...... Hans Blixt and the UN people who inspected for nuclear weapons said there were not any and I believed them, and frankly even if there was mustard gas or any other biological weapons in Iraq that was not enough for us to go in there.

 I feel bad for Colin Powell.....he had to embarass himself and his whole staff by going in front of the UN with that nonsense as a pretext for war; he knew then and he knows now that it was all shite, but like the good soldier that he is he did as he was told.

Well why do you think we (usa and uk)went in there? I  suggest it was a pretext to steal the oil,simple as that.Or is that a conspiracy theory?
Why on earth would you feel sorry for colin powell?He showed himself to be a careerist politician of the worst kind with his spineless toe the line approach,standing in front of the UN spouting such obvious lies.If he had any balls at all he would have resigned,like Robin Cook and Clare Short,both cabinet members did in the uk.Good soldier my arse.

[Guest]

(pacman @ Oct. 29 2009,16:58) [ the JFK assassination.

I did hear of the suggestion that it wasn't a plane that hit the Pentagon but a missile, but that idea was dismissed almost as soon as it was mentioned.

It fails on so many levels. For starters, what happened to the American Airlines flight? Where DID the plane get to?

On the CCTV footage that made it to air, the nose of the plane can be seen in one frame, it was going too fast to be caught by the camera, more than likely if the camera was filming at one frame per second.

Add the many eye witness accounts, the size of the hole that the plane made to the Pentagon, the debris that was recovered from the site plus no other explanation for where the plane went otherwise & it is safe to conclude that hijackers succeeded with their plan.

Thank heaven the 4th plane never made it to its intended target. As sad as it is that the passengers & crew all perished, imagine the psychological blow to the US psyche had it hit the White House?

Even now, 8 years after the events of 9/11, it still seems unreal that such an audacious plan was as successful as it was.

hi pacman,well at least you heard of the missile hypothesis.    Re the eyewitness accounts,I have not seen any that witnessed a large 757 hitting the pentagon,the ones ive seen describe smaller(planes) ...The entrance hole caused by the impact....Have you seen the fotos of the original entrance/impact hole before its eventual collapse....seriously,it looks very small...too small for a 757.What happened to flight 77 if it didnt hit the pentagon?      I dont know,unless it was shot down .The airplane wreckage on the pentagon lawn?Ive seen fotos of bits of a fuselage,but no fotos of wing parts,engines ,seats,luggage,passengers anything like that.If someone has links ,please educate me,and i'll look them up.The cctv?-the only version ive seen is the one from the petrol station near the Pentagon.Where is the footage from the Pentagon cctv?Surely the Pentagon had cctv?Is that a reasonable question? And if the Pentagon has cctv showing the impact-why has it not been seen?What could they possibly be trying to hide? All reasonable questions i think....

[Naang Faa]

You still haven't addressed the question of why the plane would fly over DC and Delaware out to sea..
x

[kahuna]

(travis bickle @ Oct. 29 2009,21:32) If someone has links ,please educate me,and i'll look them up.

Here ya go bunky....

You're not a Yank are ya?

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...tos/index.html

[Guest]

(kahuna @ Oct. 29 2009,22:31)

(travis bickle @ Oct. 29 2009,21:32) If someone has links ,please educate me,and i'll look them up.

Here ya go bunky....

You're not a Yank are ya?

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon...tos/index.html

Very good info.I have looked at this link,and i must admit i found it very enlightening.That is the first fotographic evidence ive seen regarding plane debris inside the pentagon.Strangely enough ,i was pleased to see some evidence of charred human remains,which i've always read were completely disintegrated.There are some less than convincing fotos in there as well,some that would lend weight to the cover up/missile theory,but on the whole ,i think the missile/not a plane theory is completely discredited in my eyes.                                                           There are a few questions i would like to have answered tho'.Why was the pentagon video not released until 2006?Is that the only cctv recording?Why have the FBI  taken the cctv recordings from the local buildings and refuse to release them?                                And finally,no,i am not a yank-what do you mean by that comment?

[Lefty]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 29 2009,07:21)

(travis bickle @ Oct. 29 2009,07:07) Did you believe the "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit they fed us from the word go?.

No, I didn't...... Hans Blixt and the UN people who inspected for nuclear weapons said there were not any and I believed them, and frankly even if there was mustard gas or any other biological weapons in Iraq that was not enough for us to go in there.

 I feel bad for Colin Powell.....he had to embarass himself and his whole staff by going in front of the UN with that nonsense as a pretext for war; he knew then and he knows now that it was all shite, but like the good soldier that he is he did as he was told.

I remember us discussing the decision to invade Iraq back in early 2003 on the old yellow forum. To my recollection everyone who posted regularly, except me and some guy who posted with an Arab sounding name, were all in favor of the US doing so.
When the dude with the Arab sounding user name tried to speak out there against the invasion, a bunch of you attacked him vehemently, told him to get off the forum with that kind of talk and he never posted again. I never said much because I didn't feel like arguing at the time with the pro invasion majority posting back then on the site gadgets yellow forum. I'm not always right, wrong more often probably, but I never for one second believed BushCo or ever supported his move to invade Iraq in any way. I watched it unfold on tv here in Pattaya, late March 2003, and that it was actually happening, sickened me.

[whore]

What I found even more sickening was the video Bush done of him taking the piss looking for weapons of mass destruction in his oval office. Like how tactful was that. The US invaded Irag for oil and oil alone and it wont be the last time a war will be fought for natural resources. They used 9/11 as an excuse to invade Iraq. Just look at Darfur. Genocide has been going on there for years and the world just stands by and allows it to happen for the simple reason, Sudan is an oil producing country, with 80% of its oil exports going to China. All its refinaries are built and operated be Chinese workers and guarded by Chinese soldiers and the UN, or the US wouldnt dare interfere with China's baby and allows Sudan to commit these crimes against humanity. A good docu about Darfur made by an ex US soldier working for the UN in Darfur called "the devil came on horse back". A very very good docu with some shocking stuff in it. Alittle bit off topic there.

[Nemisis]

It is sickening to know that its 2009, and the amount of educated people in this world, still prefer to wallow in their own ignorance. Was 9/11 an inside job? Well whats new, its been going on all along!


John F. Kennedy
President John F. Kennedy, Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, New York City, April 27, 1961. Address before the American Newspaper Publishers Association.

"The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings.

But we are opposed around the world; by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy, that relies primarily on covet means for expanding its fear and influence;

On infiltration instead of invasion
On subversion instead of elections
On intimidation instead of free choice

It is a system that has subscripted, vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit efficient machine. That combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific, and political operations.

Its preparations are concealed not published.
Its mistakes are buried not headlined.
Its descendants are silent not praised.
No expenditure is questioned.
No secret is revealed.

That is why the Athenian law makers soul, decreed it a crime, for any citizen to shrink from controversy.

I am asking you help, on the tremendous task of informing and alerting the American people.

Confident that with your help, man will be what he was born to be, free and independent."



"We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it.

And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it is in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know."

[Nemisis]

WORLD WAR I €“ WORLD WAR II €“ VIETNAM
Since the inception of the Federal Reserve in 1913, a number of large wars had commenced. The three most pronounced was World War I, World War II, and the Vietnam War.

World War I
In 1914, European wars broke out and centered on England and Germany. The American public wanted nothing to do with the war. In-turn President Woodrow Wilson publicly declared neutrality. However, under the surface the US administration was looking for any excuse they could find to enter. Woodrow Wilson's top advisor and mentor was Colonel Edward House. A man with intimate connections, with the International Bankers, who wanted in the war.

In a noted observation by Secretary of State William Jennings;
"The large banking interests were deeply interested in the World War because of the wide opportunities for large profits."

The Lusitania
We have to understand, that the most lucrative thing for the international bankers is war, which forces the country to borrow even more money from the Federal Reserve Bank with interest.

In a documented conversation between Colonel Edward House (Wilson's advisor) and Sir Edward Grey (British Foreign Secretary) regarding how to get America into the war, Grey inquired; "What will Americans do if Germans sink an ocean liner with American passengers on board?" House responded; "I believe that a flame of indignation would sweep the United States and that by itself would be sufficient to carry us into war."

So on May 7th 1915 on accentually the suggestion of Sir Edward Grey, a ship called the Lusitania was deliberately sent into German controlled waters where German military vessels were known to be. And as expected, German U-boats torpedoed the ship, exploding stored ammunition, sinking it in 18 minutes and killing 1200 people.

To further understand the nature of this set-up, the German Embassy actually put advertisements in the New York Times, telling people if they did board the Lusitania, they did so at their own risk. As such a ship sailing from America to England through a war zone would be liable to destruction.

In turn and as anticipated, the sinking of the Lusitania caused a wave of anger among the American population. And America entered the war a short time after. The First World War caused 323,000 American deaths. J.D. Rockefeller made $200 million out of it, about $1.9 trillion in today's standards.
Not to mention the war cost $30 billion for America, and most of it was borrowed from the Federal Reserve Bank with interest, furthering the profits of the international bankers.

[Nemisis]

WWII

Henry L. Stimson (American Secretary of War)
Documented in a conversation with Roosevelt on November 25th 1941
"The question was how we should maneuver them into firing the first shot... it was desirable to make sure the Japanese be the ones to do this so that there should remain no doubt as to who were the aggressors."

After 60 years of surfacing information it is quite clear that, not only was the attack on Pearl Harbor known weeks in advance, it was outright wanted and provoked. Roosevelt, whose family, had been New York Bankers since the 18th century, whose uncle Fredric was on the Federal Reserve Board, was very sympathetic to the international bankers. And the interest was to enter the war, as nothing was more profitable.

In the months leading up to the attack in Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt did everything in his power to anger the Japanese, showing a posture of aggression. He halted all of Japan's imports of American petroleum; he froze all of Japanese assets in the United States. He made public loans to China, and supplied military aid to Britain, both enemies to Japan in the war. This was complete violation of international war rules.

On December 4th 1941, 3 day's before the attack, Australian intelligence warned Roosevelt about a Japanese task force moving towards Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt ignored it. And mysteriously, all of Pearl Harbor's radar equipment was removed. So on December 7th 1941, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, killing 2400 soldiers. Before Pearl Harbor, 83% of the American people wanted nothing to do with the war.

The Union Banking Corporation
Another group was the Union Banking Corporation of New York City. Not only did it finance numerous aspects of Hitler's rise to power, along with actual materials used during the war, it was also a Nazi money laundering bank. It was eventually exposed for having millions of Nazi money in its vaults.

The Union Banking Corporation was eventually seized under the €˜Trading with the Enemy Act'. And guess who the director and vice president of the Union Bank was? ...Prescott Bush, grandfather to President George W. Bush, and father of former President George H. Bush. Keep this in mind when considering the immoral disposition of the Bush family.

[Nemisis]

VIETNAM
The United States official declaration of war against North Vietnam in 1964 came after an alleged incident involving two US destroyers being attacked by North Vietnam PT boats in the Gulf of Tolken. This was known as the €˜Gulf of Tolken Incident', and this single situation was the catalytic pretext for, massive troop deployment, in full fledge warfare.

One problem however, the attack on the US destroyers by Vietnamese PT boats.... NEVER HAPPENED!

Robert McNamara (US Defense Secretary 1961 €“ 1968)
US Defense Secretary Robert McNamara years later stated, that the €˜Gulf of Tolken Incident' was a MISTAKE! Wile many insiders and officers came forward relaying that it was a contrived farce, and a complete lie.

Once in the war it was business as usual. In October 1966, President Linden Johnson signed the trading restrictions on the Soviet Block, knowing full well that the Soviet Union was supplying 80% of North Vietnam's war supply.

Consequently, Rockefeller interests financed factories in the Soviet Union, which were used to make military equipment and sold to North Vietnam.

However, funding both sides of this conflict was only one side of the coin. In 1985 Vietnam's rules of engagement were declassified. This detailed what American troops were, and were not allowed to do in the war. It included;
1. North Vietnamese anti-aircraft missile systems could not be bombed until they were known to be operational.
2. No enemy could be pursued into surrounding areas such as Cambodia and Louis.
3. Critical strategic targets to be engaged via high approval only. (Most strange of all)

Apart from these imposed ludicrous limitations, North Vietnam was informed of these restrictions, and therefore based their entire strategy around the American limitations. This is why the war went on so long, and the bottom line was, the Vietnam War was never meant to be won... just sustained.

War of profit resulted in 58,000 American deaths, and 3,000,000 Vietnamese deaths.

So it is clear that the Vietnam War was a set-up, and in such a way to stretch it out to make as much profit as possible. But playing this game resulted in loosing the war, but I am sure the money-men couldn't care less either way, that was not their objective.

Like all the wars through history involving the Americans, they were all set-up in some way, even their own civil war.


So! Where are we now?

[Nemisis]

9/11

September 11 was the jump-start for what is now an exhilarated agenda by the ruthless elite. It was a staged war pretext no different from the sinking of the Lusitania, the provoking at Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tolkin lie. In fact if 9/11 was not a planed war pretext, it would be an exception to the rule.

It has been used to launch two unprovoked illegal wars, one against Iraq and one against Afghanistan. However, 9/11 was the pretext for another war as well.... the war against the ordinary American people. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, the Military Tribunal Act, and other legislations, are all completely and designed to destroy civil liberties, putting a limit on the abilities to fight back, for what is still to come.

Currently in the United States, unannounced to most brain-washed Americans, homes can be searched without a warrant, without residents being home, arrests can be made with no charges being revealed, detained indefinitely with no axis to a lawyer, and legally tortured, all under the alleged suspicion you might be a terrorist.

If you need a painted picture of what in happening in America today, lets recognize how history repeats itself. In February 1933, Hitler staged a false-flag attack by burning down the German parliament building €˜The Reichstag'. And then blamed it on communist terrorists.

In the next few weeks he passed the €˜Enabling Act', completely eradicated the German constitution, destroying people's liberties. He then led a series of preempted wars, all justified to the German people as necessary to maintaining €˜Homeland Security'.

George W. Bush
"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

Adolf Hitler (when announcing the Gestapo to the people)
"An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation. We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland."

(Well now you know where Bush got his speech from, one dictator copying another dictator.)

Its time to wake up, the people in power go out of their way to perpetually misled and manipulated. The majority perception of reality, especially in the political arena is not their own, it is shrewdly imposed upon them, without them even knowing it.

[Lefty]

War Is a Racket

War Is a Racket is the title of two works, a speech and a booklet, by retired U.S. Marine Major General Smedley Darlington Butler, one of only 19 people to be twice awarded the Medal of Honor, in which Butler frankly discusses from his experience as a career military officer how business interests have commercially benefited from warfare.

In War Is A Racket, Butler points to a variety of examples, mostly from World War I, where industrialists whose operations were subsidised by public funding were able to generate substantial profits essentially from mass human suffering.

It contains this key summary:

   "War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

In another often cited quote from the book Butler says:

   "I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

The book is also interesting historically as Butler points out in 1935 that the US is engaging in military war games in the Pacific that are bound to provoke the Japanese.

   "The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the United States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet playing at war games off Los Angeles."

Butler explains that the excuse for the buildup of the US fleet and the war games is fear that "the great fleet of this supposed enemy will strike suddenly and annihilate 125,000,000 people."