Some useless but fun facts!

[strocube]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 21 2009,23:53)

(travis bickle @ Oct. 21 2009,05:59) very good-i can believe most of it-but lee harvey oswald acting alone???puh-leeze-"back and to the side....back and to the side......back and to the side"

siiiiighhhh....unfortunately  you guys who watched  the movie JFK have been brainwashed along with the other 65% to think it was some inside job by;

{pick your poison}

  The Cia

  The Mob

  Lyndon Johnson

 The Russians

 The Cubans/Castro

  Etc........all Bullshit!!


Read  Gerald Pozners excellent book on this subject, 'Case Closed'; and you will indeed agree it is a closed case;  some attention-seeking loner who wanted his 15 minutes of fame pulled the trigger and was then shot by a Kennedy-loving patriot;  end of story, no conspiracy, and in the end Oliver Stone embarassed himself and made a whole generation of people believe his bullshit movie; basically the  farcical story of a discredited lunatic district attorney from New Orleans!!


      Sorry guys,  back to UFO-hunting!

Now where did I leave my tin foil hat?
Any of you bastards seen my hat?
I must block the CIA mind control rays or my day will be ruined.

Just kidding, I'm pretty sure there's more to the Kennedy assassination than Oswald acting alone. There were just so many powerful people who not only had a motive, but also the means to whack the pres.
JaiDee, you left out the military, but I guess the CIA kinda falls under that category.

[JaiDee]

The one thing that people seem to forget, however, is the inability of most people to keep a secret.

  In a conspiracy, whether it's the COMPLETE FUCKING LUNATICS  who think 9/11 was done by our government to allow the military - industrial complex {IE; President Cheney and his friends at Halliburton, plus hundreds of others who would benefit} to gain financially, or the hundreds of people it would have taken to kill JFK in some of the lunatic-fringe theories out there, I just find it hard to believe that no one would talk.  In 46 years not ONE person who was in on the scheme or a friend or relative from a shooter on the grassy knoll or working for Carlos Marcello or Castro wouldn't have spoken out ny now?  Sorry, not buying it; I've been around long enough to know that it's hard for ONE person to keep a secret, forget hundreds or even thousands.

Oswald had NO friends..... even during his 2 -year stint in Minsk pretending to be a communist [another attention getting move] he didn't get along with anyone and all the factory workers he hung around with thought he was ''odd'';   6 months before he killed  JFK he tried to take out an ex-general in his home and missed, another plot he thought up all by himself, it had no connection to the JFK assasination and was just his first attempt to gain some sort of noteriety; of course his 2nd attempt fared much better.  So he didn't work with anyone and wasn't used by any groups as a patsy, etc.....he was a lone nut who succeeded in getting what he wanted; attention.

   Hard to believe there is still even any discussion on this issue, it amazes me every time it's brought up.

The JFK movie was the worst thing to ever have been done regarding this whole issue, and is filled with errors; just the fact that a whole generation will watch that piece of crap and come to inaccurate conclusions does a huge disservice to the memory of a great man and his family. Ollie Stone is a great filmmaker but he surely missed the mark on that one, damned shame, really.

[Ozzie]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 22 2009,02:53)

(travis bickle @ Oct. 21 2009,05:59) very good-i can believe most of it-but lee harvey oswald acting alone???puh-leeze-"back and to the side....back and to the side......back and to the side"

siiiiighhhh....unfortunately  you guys who watched  the movie JFK have been brainwashed along with the other 65% to think it was some inside job by;

{pick your poison}

  The Cia

  The Mob

  Lyndon Johnson

 The Russians

 The Cubans/Castro

  Etc........all Bullshit!!


Read  Gerald Pozners excellent book on this subject, 'Case Closed'; and you will indeed agree it is a closed case;  some attention-seeking loner who wanted his 15 minutes of fame pulled the trigger and was then shot by a Kennedy-loving patriot;  end of story, no conspiracy, and in the end Oliver Stone embarassed himself and made a whole generation of people believe his bullshit movie; basically the  farcical story of a discredited lunatic district attorney from New Orleans!!


      Sorry guys,  back to UFO-hunting!

JD I used to think you were a logical rational person. Lee Harvey Oswald was no marksman shit I can shoot better than he can. Plenty of books on the subject such as the one you alluded from Jim Garrison and also many more theories about the who however one simple fact is it was no lone gun man.

[JaiDee]

Sorry Oz,  disagree ...... Garrison was a nutcase who proved nothing, his star witness folded and Clay Shaw came back innocent in less than an hour in that mockery of a show trial, which only tarnished the image of a local businessman who had absolutely no connections to any of that nonsense.  

   you must be a pretty  good shot man; here is a quote from the Warren commission describing Oswalds accuracy, as described by his marine test final scores;  sharpshooter is excellent, marksman is also pretty good I would think;
http://www.archives.gov/researc....#marine


''Following that training, Oswald was tested in December of 1956, and obtained a score of 212, which was 2 points above the minimum for qualifications as a "sharpshooter" in a scale of marksman--sharpshooter--expert.   In May of 1959, on another range, Oswald scored 191, which was 1 point over the minimum for ranking as a "marksman."''



Again, I will dispute any of the books FOR conspiracy with the classic one from Gerald Posner which I read years ago, Case Closed.


http://www.librarything.com/work/61926


''Posner totally debunks all the popularist garbage that has cropped up around the assasination of JFK over the years and proves almost beyond a doubt that Oswald acted alone. ''

[Lefty]

Oswald may have been a marksman using an M1 Garand or an M14, but the rifle he was using that day was an Italian Carano with an ancient military scope on it. The Carano was and has long been noted as a very inaccurate rifle compared to other contemporary rifles of those days. It was as poor a choice as one could select for a rifle with which to do any precision shooting. According to your own link there, he was considered a somewhat better than average rifle shot as Marines go, (which is far from making him an expert, especially using a Carcano).

BTW, what makes Posner right and the others wrong, "case closed", other than you choose to believe him over others? Did you crosscheck all that he purported to be fact? Or merely take him at his word?
Looking at your link, while most respondents liked the book, not all were convinced:

I taught a course on the Kennedy assassination in 1993 and again in 1994, at a time when a number of books were coming out on the subject, including this one. I try to be generous to the authors whose books I'm reading, and to give them the benefit of the doubt, but in this case, I was forced to the conclusion that Posner was intentionally misrepresenting the facts---shucks, that he was lying. A dangerous sand trap for anyone hoping to learn something about what's been uncovered about the JFK assassination.

[pacman]

I have just caught up with this thread.

I love reading how passionately JaiDee argues the case in favour of the government, i.e. that they are above suspicion, that the gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing JFK.

Sorry but that is just plain wrong.

Kennedy signed his own death warrant when it became known that he was determined to legislate away the awesome powers of the Federal Reserve.

Why on earth would a sitting president want to do that?

Because unlike every other central bank in the world, the Fed is a privately owned bank in complete control of the largest economy on earth.

Allowed to come into existence by Woodrow Wilson who when he realised what he had done, asked the American public to forgive him.

For many years they served their country well until that charlatan John Maynard Keynes convinced FDR to confiscate all private holdings of gold & put the US into hock to fund work programs supposedly to end the Great Depression.

That only prolonged the depression which never ended till after WWII. The Fed happily went along with all this, making ever more amounts of money. Except things didn't go exactly to plan.

If you want to know why there has been no stocktake of Fort Knox for nearly 60 years, the reason is - there has been nothing there but IOU's for all that time. Exactly where the gold went & why I can't explain but the truth was sure to come out if Kennedy was allowed to sign into law Executive Order 11,110.

That just could not be allowed to happen & it sure as hell wasn't some crazy serviceman who stumbled across the truth & decided to do the Fed a favour.

JaiDee's suggestion that conspiracy theories fail because you don't get so many people to all keep quiet is absolutely right. On that point I agree with him. But the co-conspirators were never allowed to speak up.

In the aftermath of JFK's assassination, all the CIA people who knew of the plot & weren't trusted to be quiet were killed. Over the next few years, I believe the figure that included wives, friends, etc ran into the 100's.

One of the CIA operatives in charge that day was George Bush Snr.

But Oswald? Surely he would talk? He was arrested & was expected to reveal who had put him up to it. His time in Russia surely pointed to an international plot to get revenge for the Bay of Pigs?

After all, America doesn't kill assassins until they have been tried & convicted. Do they fuck!!!!!!

Who was Jack Ruby? A petty mobster in jail dying of cancer. With months to live, he was allowed out of jail to do the authorities a favour. He could redeem his reputation & make a name for himself by shooting the guy who killed the President.

Watch the video where Oswald is shot. The officers present step out of the way so this old guy can walk right up to Oswald & shoot him in the chest. Unbelievable.

So who killed JFK?

Three gunmen standing on the grassy knoll. All witnesses were quickly killed. The film showing bullets hitting the President from an angle impossible to get from the book repository has had vital frames cut out of it.

There has been a massive cover-up. The amount of misinformation released to throw everyone off is unprecedented in modern history. Unfortunately America has used their defamation laws to block many attempts to name those behind this.

Here in Australia, we have access to more information than my American friends are allowed to see.

I challenge anybody to repudiate the claims I have made here. The idea that Oswald was a lone gunman is nonsense.

Why hasn't the official autopsy ever been released? Because it shows the number of bullets that really hit their target.

Why did Oswald have to be killed? Because he was only there because he had been coerced, most likely drugged & brainwashed.

I hope the real story of this tragic event is revealed in my lifetime. I would happily take bets that the above scenario is closer to the truth than any other.

[JaiDee]

(pacman @ Oct. 22 2009,17:41) So who killed JFK?

Three gunmen standing on the grassy knoll.

Thanks Pac,  it's always good to start the day off with a chuckle  

   Us yanks have been laughing about the grassy knoll theory since we were knee-high; but foreigners still buy that nonsense? Amazing, really.

   There is no evidence that stands up to scrutiny for anything besides Oswald being the lone shooter.....and truthfully I can't believe some people here actually believe the conspiracy theories along with the 65%,  when none hold water and there is no actual PROOF for any one of them!  

       It's not just Posners book, Lefty; how about a little something called The Warren Commisson?  JFK's own family agreed with them, including his brother the attorney general,  at the time the 2nd most powerful man in the country; if it's good enough for RFK it's good enough for me.

       But this shows  just how much people love a good, false conspiracy story; of all the pointless facts I provided this was the only one picked on ..... nothing about ''waddya mean I am related to all the people in Mongolia as well as in Argentina and Israel, how could that be?"  Only more doubters about a case which was solved in 1964.

         I guess that's why they call it a conspiracy.

[Guest]

JD,why are you so convinced by the posner book and disregard the rest?There were several witnesses of shooters on the grassy knoll that were never even interviewed by the warren commission. Yes,Oswald was a good marksman,but why did he not shoot Kennedy on his approach to the book depository-why did he wait until he had passed by to shoot at him? The easy shot was from the front as he approached,not from the back as he passed by! Also,how can you deny the kill shot in the zapruder film clearly shows that the shot came from in front of him.?I  have also read the Jim Garrison book,and the CIA used every trick in the book to discredit him(including trying to entrap him in a gay sex scenario in an airport washroom!) There has also been a disclosure in the last year by one of the watergate"burglars"(i  cant remember which one) who was identifyed as one of the "tramps"photographed in deeley plaza. The case is definitely not closed...

[pacman]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 22 2009,22:24) Thanks Pac,  it's always good to start the day off with a chuckle  

   Us yanks have been laughing about the grassy knoll theory since we were knee-high; but foreigners still buy that nonsense? Amazing, really.

   

Of course you don't believe the grassy knoll theory, you are American & from the day you took an interest in this, you have had all the propaganda shoved down your throat so that now, you only believe what the authorities want you to believe.

Did 3 guys carry out an assassination on JFK? I don't know, I wasn't there, but I have seen a grainy picture of guys peaking over the knoll with what look like guns. Have you?

It was taken off a B&W 8mm home movie shot by someone in the crowd. I have since read that the picture proved nothing; another time that it was a fake; then another time a different picture was published which showed nothing.

All I know is - I SAW IT!!!

Then I read that the guy who filmed it was killed; then the story was that he had it taken from him & has been refused its return; then he made a statement that he didn't think it proved anything.

What a circus!!!

The truth about what happened has been systematically buried & like a good patriot, JaiDee came riding to the rescue to reject my version of events.

Everyone should read Police Officer Hargis' testimony to the Warren Commission. He maintains to this day that he was covered in brain matter immediately after the shooting, indicating that the bullets hit JFK on the right hand side. This is also supported by the missing frames of fim shot at the time. The Warren report uses Hargis' evidence as proof that Oswald shot JFK from behind.

Here are photos of the grassy knoll -

the first shows JFK moments after the shooting, the knoll is surrounded by the wall, a perfect place for a sniper or snipers to take aim.

The second is moments after the cavalcade sped off. Notice which direction people are pointing & looking towards.

The 3rd image shows the 2 lines of fire. Remember Oswald was 88 metres away firing into the back of JFK's head while his brains came flying out his left side. Not just a neat trick, absolutely impossible...

[Lefty]

      BRAVO TO PACMAN!!! I TOTALLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY AGREE WITH YOU.  

WE CAN SHARE SOME RED WINE NEXT MONTH AND I WILL TOAST YOUR WISDOM AND INTELLIGENCE ON THIS SUBJECT.    

One other thing you don't mention, or that I seen anyway, was the ridiculous single-bullet or magic bullet theory. That is one of the biggest crocks I've ever read. I'm no paid FBI expert nor did I ever play one on tv, but I have enough practical experience and knowledge of ballistics and bullet performance on animal flesh to know how virtually impossible that theory was. Fuck you Arlen Specter and the horse you rode in on.  


Travis Bickle: I very much applaud your very fine post as well.  

JaiDee: Well, I will always highly respect you as a stand up, honest, look someone in the eye and never BS them, straight shooter, kind of guy. In those regards, I've never known better.  
But, on this subject we will have to just agree to disagree.

[JaiDee]

(Lefty @ Oct. 23 2009,11:54) But, on this subject we will have to just agree to disagree.

And that's fine, that's what message boards are all about..... if everyone just said "uh-huh'' this would be a very boring place.

     Thanks for the cool grainy pics, they were good for another chuckle while eating my pop tarts..... I have been seeing shit like that since I was 5 years old  and they still prove nothing; if you see something in there you have much better eyesight than I do.

   Right side of his head blown off?  Yups, because the bullet entered from the rear and blew out the front side!

 So no one here cares that the Kennedy family believes the Truth?

 As long as  you all know your particular fantastical versions,  what the family is told doesn't matter; from the attorney general at the time to Teddy to Jackie and all the Kennedys, they don't need to know what you guys all know ..... ''lets just force-feed them some BS about Oswald being the lone gunman, they surely won't ask any questions about the grassy knoll''.  This stuff should all be in a comic book, seriously......


 To be honest I am shocked people in 2009 still even discuss this issue, it was solved in 1964 and the only people who don't believe the true version are either just selling books or buying them. And I'd still like to get Snick's version of what he believes RE all this stuff; too controversial for you man?

[JaiDee]

(pacman @ Oct. 23 2009,10:13) Notice which direction people are pointing & looking towards.

Yes,   by all means look!

 Look at the guys standing near that barrier in the top photo ....supposedly just a few FEET from the potential ''shooters'' ......and yet they are all looking at the car; not even ONE guy instinctively turned to his left after hearing what certainly must have been a very loud gunshot?  Your diagram in the 3rd pic shows that the shots would have been about 10 feet from where they were standing and yet they are looking at the car LOL..... a high-powered rifle from 10 feet away would surely demand a look from those 3 guys, no?

     Doooood,  as usual the one thing you nor anyone else  has in any of this nonsense is PROOF!!   just more hearsay and conspiracy nonsense!!

   This was solved 45 years ago here in the US; but people in other parts of the world still really believe the book-sellers?  amazing... and again, always good for a chuckle.

[Naang Faa]

(JaiDee @ Oct. 23 2009,17:37)  Look at the guys standing near that barrier in the top photo ....supposedly just a few FEET from the potential ''shooters'' ......and yet they are all looking at the car; not even ONE guy instinctively turned to his left after hearing what certainly must have been a very loud gunshot?

To be fair JaiDee that photo was from the moment JFK was first hit (you can see Jackie looking at him in concern)..the "alleged" Grassy Knoll shot had not happened by then...So no need to look behind them at that stage..

Personal view i am yet to be convinced either way..
x

[JaiDee]

(pacman @ Oct. 23 2009,10:13) I have seen a grainy picture of guys peaking over the knoll with what look like guns. Have you?

please send up that photo.....

"Oh, I don't have THAT one on my hard drive"

I am actually happy to have brought up this topic, it proves once again what PT Barnum said all those years ago.

[JaiDee]

(Naang Faa @ Oct. 23 2009,23:51) To be fair JaiDee that photo was from the moment JFK was first hit (you can see Jackie looking at him in concern)..the "alleged" Grassy Knoll shot had not happened by then...

Personal view i am yet to be convinced either way..
                                                                           

well, at least you have an open mind if you are not convinced either way.

I guess people like myself and Pacman {and of course my pal Lefty, who feels like the use of CAPS and smiley faces and hand claps must prove what he says is correct} are the stubborn ones, believing ONLY one story and not wavering; I know I never will, because there is not one bit of actual PROOF that he was killed by anyone other than Oswald, only theory and conjecture.

See, that word worries conspiracy people.... Proof.... from UFO hunters to 9/11 whack jobs, to people who have 9 different idea's on how JFK was killed....without proof these outrageous theories can continue and people can keep selling books and message boards like this one can keep chatting about them.