A health care story

[JaiDee]

OK, so does the USA need new health care guidelines?

One persons story........

        I have had right shoulder problems since 1998......I was working a very physical job at the time and threw it out; a month of  percocets and some bed rest took care of that, as well as some steroid-cortisone injections every few months directly into the bursa sack which seperates the clavical from the bone where the bicep sits on. Enjoy pain?  Are you a masochist?  Get one of these babies in a huge syringe shot directly into your bursa sack every 3rd month and  you will be happy


     So after 2004 it went away......I was lucky, I guess..... but came back with a vengeance in 2007 and hurts every day now. We have tried medications for inflammation, for pain, for arthritis, etc....  you name it, nothing works.  Finally the Doc says "surgery", and I say "cool, if I can finally have full range of motion and not have pain every time I lift my arm above my shoulder".


         Now, keep in mind that since I became self-employed in 2001 I have to pay my own health care, as well as for 2 little people who need to be covered as well. Total cost, per month? $705.50US ....no joke. And even with those high premiums my deductable is still $1000, and THEN I still pay 20/80 on anything incurred over that amount; Blue Cross pays the 80%, I am on the hook for 20%.


  OK, so lets add it up;  the  X-ray and then the MRI which tells the dude where to operate;  2800 bucks. Turns out all the tendons between my clavical and arm bone are gone, so they have to ''shave'' away some bone on each side so there will be room in there again, and then jury-rig some type of new tendons in between. Way cool. Cost for the Doc to perform this 2 hour surgery? $15, 282.00.   Nice gig if you can get it,  and put in the 10 years of Med school and wanna pay 1/2 of all  your income to malpractice insurance.


       Anestheologist? $7500.  This is out-patient surgery, so  to rent the hospital room for 3 hours is  another $3000. {Thank God there is no overnight stay!}  All told,  from MRI to  Meds for my 1-week recovery time, we are nearing in on 30 thousands dollars. So, besides paying the $8400 a year for premiums I faithfully pay every month right out of my paycheck,  I am now on the hook for 6K more for them to open me up for 2 hours and fix this.   I either live with pain for the rest of my life or pay up, what other choice do I have? {I do have a letter out to Bumrungrad in BKK, but not sure if I wanna go that route}.

Welcome to health care in the USA, circa 2009!  Reform; why would we possibly need reform?

[pacman]

I think the health care debate going on in the US today is symptomatic of much of that countries problems.

How on earth does something so fundamental to the well being of a countries population become a left wing versus right wing argument?

Where does politics fit into this? I have never heard such nonsense when the critics of health reform claim it to be a socialist plot.

Just like the national debate on abortion, gun control, pre-emptive strike action, affirmative action, border protection, energy policy, tort reform, farm subsidies
& every other contentious issue, every public commentator interviews every self-interested party with the result the country rips itself apart arguing in never ending circles.

They call it democracy & it gets subverted by every means imaginable.

If Obama can't succeed in delivering national health reform then JaiDee & all others in his situation won't see the system fixed in our lifetime.

What an indictment of a once great country...    

[katoeylover]

In spite of all its problems, I say thank god for the NHS

[BlueBallz]

I was gonna say why dont you have it done in LOS?? Something deffo needs to be done. What I am not so certain? What I am wondering is would JD have this problem even taken care of in, say, the UK, Canada, or France??

[blonde_havoc]

What people are failing to realize (and politicians are failing to cash in on) is that Obama doesn't need the support of the right-wing whatsoever. There is a clear democratic majority in both the house and the senate. I don't know why they just don't say "fuck you" and go for it. But then... I kind of do know why... they're all in the pockets of the insurance companies, and herein lies the real challenge.

[strocube]

There really isn't much of a debate in this country really, if by "debate" you mean "a formal discussion on a particular topic . . . in which opposing arguments are put forward." What you have instead, is a lot of fear mongering coming from the right-wing media, especially, Fox News.
They have been, and continue to be, extremely effective at manipulating the white working class in this country to actually agitate against their own interests. They scare them by trotting out the usual things that these people have been taught to fear, "socialism", "The Government" and "niggers." Works every time!
You have powerful interests, in the form of drug companies and insurance companies with billions of $ at stake who will do anything in their power to kill any kind of meaningful reform. The last thing they want is anything like "single payer" or even a "public option." These people effectively own and operate key politicians who are their payed lackeys.
I really hope that we get some kind of meaningful reform that begins to look, at least something like, what other developed western countries enjoy, but it does not look good.

[patrick]

(JaiDee @ Sep. 14 2009,20:23) OK, so does the USA need new health care guidelines?

One persons story........

..... what other choice do I have? {I do have a letter out to Bumrungrad in BKK, but not sure if I wanna go that route}.

Welcome to health care in the USA, circa 2009!  Reform; why would we possibly need reform?

If the all up cost at Bumrungrad is less than your net outlay, I would definitely recommend you consider that option. I have had an extensive medical check up and an MRI there, the facilities and medical expertise/care are world class and of course you could buy a nurses uniform for your caring LB's to wear during your recovery week.

[Snick]

Not only is health care in the USA insanely expensive. But god forbid you need emergency care. Twice I have had to go to an emergency room, and its horrible.
The emergency rooms are all overloaded (since for the uninsured its the ONLY option) and unless you walk in missing an arm and with blood spewing you'll be forced to wait 2 hours sitting next to the guy who came in for a check on his tuberculosis.
The first time - I just got out and left and drove home with a 100+ fever.
The second time they finally took care of me and put me in a cot next to a guy who was handcuffed to his.

I've twice been to the emergency room in Bangkok -- and I would take that over USA anytime.

( and for those who say I'm comparing apples and oranges - the USA hospitals were both private hospitals. )

PS went to the hospital yesterday and paid $40 for a doctor visit and some cough medicine

PPS My health insurance here is $400 / YEAR

[Snick]

About the argument in USA about health care its nuts.

The rank and file republican is arguing for the right to spend more money on health care and to be uninsured. Thats the definition of an idiot.

I love the protesters who argue that they want no government involvement in health care and to leave their medicare alone.

[smuttleydfs]

(pacman @ Sep. 14 2009,11:28) I think the health care debate going on in the US today is symptomatic of much of that countries problems.

How on earth does something so fundamental to the well being of a countries population become a left wing versus right wing argument?

Where does politics fit into this? I have never heard such nonsense when the critics of health reform claim it to be a socialist plot.

Just like the national debate on abortion, gun control, pre-emptive strike action, affirmative action, border protection, energy policy, tort reform, farm subsidies
& every other contentious issue, every public commentator interviews every self-interested party with the result the country rips itself apart arguing in never ending circles.

They call it democracy & it gets subverted by every means imaginable.

If Obama can't succeed in delivering national health reform then JaiDee & all others in his situation won't see the system fixed in our lifetime.

What an indictment of a once great country...    

This is not only a left/right thing but very sadly a black/white thing also. I'm snot saying that if Obama was white it woud be any differne but I seriously believe it wouldn't be as bad. I'm not entirely on the left in this debate because I hink some of their proposals not only need a lot of tweaking but are also pretty lame.but conversely the GOP has yet to put anything on the table whatsoever!!!! They are more worried about protecting the fat cats who throw their support towards them and the special interest groups who line their pockets.

You look at the protestors within the town halls and outside them and they are almost 100% white especially in the south!!!! Then you have the Glen Becks, Oxycotin Rushes, Sean without a clue Hannity and Caribou Barbie spreading lies and misinformation and all it suceeds in doing is stoking the flames and inciting the ignorant masses

This debate is ot close to being over and although I am completely behind getting a plan in place before 2010 I sincerely feel there needs to be some cooperation between the parties if the GOP would collectively pull their proverbial heads out of their rectums and bring something to the table. If not the Left should squash the vermin.............

[Torurot]

It is the War in Afghanistan Obama Declared a "Necessity," Not Health Care
The Health Care Deceit
http://counterpunch.org/roberts09142009.html
By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS September 14, 2009

The current health care €œdebate€ shows how far gone representative government is in the United States. Members of Congress represent the powerful interest groups that fill their campaign coffers, not the people who vote for them.

The health care bill is not about health care. It is about protecting and increasing the profits of the insurance companies. The main feature of the health care bill is the €œindividual mandate,€ which requires everyone in America to buy health insurance. Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont), a recipient of millions in contributions over his career from the insurance industry, proposes to impose up to a $3,800 fine on Americans who fail to purchase health insurance.

The determination of €œour€ elected representatives to serve the insurance industry is so compelling that Congress is incapable of recognizing the absurdity of these proposals.

The reason there is a health care crisis in the US is that the cumulative loss of jobs and benefits has swollen the uninsured to approximately 50 million Americans. They cannot afford health insurance any more than employers can afford to provide it.

It is absurd to mandate that people purchase what they cannot afford and to fine them for failing to do so. A person who cannot pay a health insurance premium cannot pay the fine.

These proposals are like solving the homeless problem by requiring the homeless to purchase a house.

In his speech Obama said €œwe€™ll provide tax credits€ for €œthose individuals and small businesses who still can€™t afford the lower-priced insurance available in the exchange€ and he said low-cost coverage will be offered to those with preexisting medical conditions. A tax credit is useless to those without income unless the credit is refundable, and subsidized coverage doesn€™t do much for those millions of Americans with no jobs.

Baucus masquerades as a defender of the health impaired with his proposal to require insurers to provide coverage to all comers as if the problem of health care can be reduced to preexisting conditions and cancelled policies. It was left to Rep. Dennis Kucinich to point out that the health care bill ponies up 30 million more customers for the private insurance companies.

The private sector is no longer the answer, because the income levels of the vast majority of Americans are insufficient to bear the cost of health insurance today. To provide some perspective, the monthly premium for a 60-year old female for a group policy (employer-provided) with Blue Cross Blue Shield in Florida is about $1,200. That comes to $14,400 per year. Only employees in high productivity jobs that can provide both a livable salary and health care can expect to have employer-provided coverage. If a 60-year old female has to buy a non-group policy as an individual, the premium would be even higher. How, for example, is a Wal-Mart shelf stocker or check out clerk going to be able to pay a private insurance premium?

Even the present public option--Medicare--is very expensive to those covered. Basic Medicare is insufficient coverage. Part B has been added, for which about $100 per month is deducted from the covered person€™s Social Security check. If the person is still earning or has other retirement income, an €œincome-related monthly adjustment€ is also deducted as part of the Part B premium. And if the person is still working, his earnings are subject to the 2.9 percent Medicare tax.

Even with Part B, Medicare coverage is still insufficient except for the healthy. For many people, additional coverage from private supplementary policies, such as the ones sold by AARP, is necessary. These premiums can be as much as $277 per month. Deductibles remain and prescriptions are only 50% covered. If the drug prescription policy is chosen, the premium is higher.

This leaves a retired person on Medicare who has no other retirement income of significance paying as much as $4,500 per year in premiums in order to create coverage under Medicare that still leaves half of his prescription medicines out-of-pocket. Considering the cost of some prescription medicines, a Medicare-covered person with Part B and a supplementary policy can still face bankruptcy.

Therefore, everyone should take note that a €œpublic option€ can leave people with large out-of-pocket costs. I know a professional who has chosen to continue working beyond retirement age. His Medicare coverage with supplemental coverage, Medicare tax, and income-related monthly adjustment comes to $16,400 per year. Those people who want to deny Medicare to the rich will cost the system a lot of money.

What the US needs is a single-payer not-for-profit health system that pays doctors and nurses sufficiently that they will undertake the arduous training and accept the stress and risks of dealing with illness and diseases.

A private health care system worked in the days before expensive medical technology, malpractice suits, high costs of bureaucracy associated with third-party payers and heavy investment in combating fraud, and pressure on insurance companies from Wall Street to improve €œshareholder returns.€

Despite the rise in premiums, payments to health care providers, such as doctors, appear to be falling along with coverage to policy holders. The system is no longer functional and no longer makes sense. Health care has become an incidental rather than primary purpose of the health care system. Health care plays second fiddle to insurance company profits and salaries to bureaucrats engaged in fraud prevention and discovery. There is no point in denying coverage to one-sixth of the population in the name of saving a nonexistent private free market health care system.

The only way to reduce the cost of health care is to take the profit and paperwork out of health care.

Nothing humans design will be perfect. However, Congress is making it clear to the public that the wrong issues are front and center, such as the belief of Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC) and others that illegal aliens and abortions will be covered if government pays the bill.

Debate focuses on subsidiary issues, because Congress no longer writes the bills it passes. As Theodore Lowi made clear in his book, The End of Liberalism, the New Deal transferred law-making from the legislative to the executive branch. Executive branch agencies and departments write bills that they want and hand them off to sponsors in the House and Senate. Powerful interest groups took up the same practice.
The interest groups that finance political campaigns expect their bills to be sponsored and passed.

Thus: a health care reform bill based on forcing people to purchase private health insurance and fining them if they do not.

When bills become mired in ideological conflict, as has happened to the health care bill, something usually passes nevertheless. The president, his PR team, and members of Congress want a health care bill on their resume and to be able to claim that they passed a health care bill, regardless of whether it provides any health care.

The cost of adding public expenditures for health care to a budget drowning in red ink from wars, bank bailouts, and stimulus packages means that the most likely outcome of a health care bill will benefit insurance companies and use mandated private coverage to save public money by curtailing Medicare and Medicaid.

The public€™s interest is not considered to be the important determinant. The politicians have to please the insurance companies and reduce health care expenditures in order to save money for another decade or two of war in the Middle East.

The telltale part of Obama€™s speech was the applause in response to his pledge that €œI will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits.€ Yet, Obama and his fellow politicians have no hesitation to add trillions of dollars to the deficit in order to fund wars.

The profits of military/security companies are partly recycled into campaign contributions. To cut war spending in order to finance a public health care system would cost politicians campaign contributions from both the insurance industry and the military/security industry.

Politicians are not going to allow that to happen.

It was the war in Afghanistan, not health care, that President Obama declared to be a €œnecessity.€

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions. His new book, War of the Worlds: How the Economy Was Lost, will be published next month by AK Press/CounterPunch. He can be reached at: [email protected]

[daveduke007]

(katoeylover @ Sep. 14 2009,18:10) In spite of all its problems, I say thank god for the NHS

It has saved my Father's life for years to come

[JaiDee]

(BlueBallz @ Sep. 15 2009,02:20)  What I am wondering is would JD have this problem even taken care of in, say, the UK, Canada, or France??

good question....it doesn't "need" to be done, I have lived with it for 10 years now.

But it hurts like hell a lot of the time and has curtailed a lot of my activities, especially upper-body workouts at the gym and also swimming.

   Agreed that Hospital care in Thailand is well-done, I had a 5-day lay-up at Patong general in Phuket in 2006 due to a nasty staff infection and they took care of me really well for minimal costs; I paid it all out of pocket and it was less than 300 dollars LOL; doctors, private room, meds, IV's, etc.......... that would have been 30K or more in the states!!

     *I found out today from my agent that I "only" have a 5K cap on surgery, so I save a grand ..... If the costs at Bumrungrad are around the same I will just do it right at Mass General, one of the best hospitals in the world, as I can recover better here in my own home than some hotel room in BKK.

[strocube]

Best of luck with your surgery, JaiDee.

I've had minor rotator cuff issues on my left shoulder that I dislocated. It's no fun at all.

[batman4ever]

when i read this.....iam happy to live in Denmark...free hospitals...


but also high tax....