Fire and destruction

[donnnnnny]

(Torurot @ Feb. 12 2009,01:40)  Except that he neglected to say that that area hadn't had a serious fire in FIFTY years.

I heard another fire commmander say that >50% of the fires are straight out arson, and one huge fire they had out was re-light by an arsonist!!!

The fact is , that most of these areas were well maintained when run by state forests, logged and maintained with fire trails and back burning kept up every year.
Huge areas have been turned over to national parks by various state governments, at the bequest of the greenys who hold a balance of power on the upper and lower houses.
Some of the huge bush fire problems in Australian in the last 20 years are directly linked to Wilderness.Wilderness was first introduced in 1986 in Etterma in NSW.A wilderness area is locked up gates put over all fire trail entry points , and basically left . if you want to enter these areas you must walk, which is ok if your a fit and healthy person(20 % of the population)There is little or no back burning which reduces the fuel load on the ground. It , the fuel load builds up and when we have bush fires , which we always have had, they burn hotter and more intense, wild life cannot escape and many plants and trees are so badly burned they too die .
This i s classic greeny rubbish, over love the bush and use emotional bull shit to back up your arguments,
There are other contributing factors , such as sea change people living in areas which have never has so many people living in them , hence the amount of dead people.
Return the forests to healthy selective logging and maintanance, and these huge high intense fires will soon be a thing of the past, which is better for the wild life and the humans.
fuck greenys they are the new religious idiots, who base there phylosophy on emotion ,not reality
donnnnny
ps let me take you to yalwal and show you what it has turned into since it was declared wilderness,a weed infested fire waiting to happen.

[Road Runner]

I remember staying with friends in Western Australia years ago.   At that time in WA. land owners were required to clear forrested areas every year of lying flammable trash. Trash from trees etc. not garbage.

As Donnny stated - if it's left the fuel load increases to the point that what would normally be a small fire that helps the bush enviroment - instead becomes a huge fire that does serious enviromental damage.

In the past huge fires did not matter much because the bush was huge and a fire only consumed a small percentage. Lots was left to regenerate the damaged area.
Now the bush is  relatively  much smaller and in sometimes isolated pockets.

RR.

[pacman]

(donnnnnny @ Feb. 12 2009,15:23) This i s classic  greeny  rubbish, over  love the bush and use emotional bull shit to back up your arguments,

This has cost the Greens a lot of support, people are waking up to how unrealistic their dumb policies are.

Wait for the backlash when it becomes common knowledge that these twits have blood on their hands.

[donnnnnny]

quite right pacman

[allstar88]

thinking of you all in oz  

[Torurot]

Can't agree with you Donnnnnny.. Your talking foresters clear-fell/selective logging. There is significant study and research which says that full bush is cooler overall, and more resistant to fire. It's eveolved that way over hundreds of years. Once you cut into it with fire breaks etc all this changes the dynamics of the forest. Significantly there had not been a MAJOR fire in that area in 50 years. that's a significant time scale. As this is clearly a one in 50/100 year fire event with unusual perfect storm conditions building up over a number of weeks you can't use this as an example to burn Australia to save it. Coupled with the fucking arsonists. Put those fuckers on the front line of every bush fire and when it's out put them back in jail until the next one.

[pacman]

   Ash Wednesday wasn't a major fire?

And with all the scientific warnings that we can expect more severe weather conditions in the future, the chance of another set of conditions like this summer are increased.

The bush adds fuel at the rate of 8 tonnes/hectare/year & even if it is cooler overall (news to me), after 10 years that is a hell of a lot of dry bush that once lit, will take off like a bomb.

The aborigines knew the value of burning the bush, both to avoid these disasters & allow the bush to regenerate. Whether they understood that in those terms, it had been their practice for 1000's of years.

I disagree with your argument, I believe the policies of the Greens when it comes to the bush failed in the Ash Wednesday fires, they failed to save suburbs of Canberra, they cost many lives last week, in fact they have been either a disaster or potential disaster in every state & jurisdiction they have been implemented.

I do agree with you about the Arse-onists, no punishment can be too great for these fuckers, just how we are going to stop them remains the biggest challenge.

[Torurot]

Check out material from
The chair of the Victorian government€™s climate change reference group, Professor David Karoly, from the University of Melbourne..

Fire index >100 is rated catastrophic. For Ash Wednesday 120, Fire index for last week 190!!!!!!!!!!!  Highest ever recorded in Australia!!!!!!!!!!  Lowest rainfall in ~20 years, humidity <10% etc etc ect  Perfect storm 100year conditions, and today we find that the Kinlake fire was caused by a broken power line.  So you going to blame the Greens for that? There is an argument for burning in built up areas. but NOT in national parks etc and other areas of virgin reserves etc.   You obviously need to build a huge canal to drain all the excess water from QLD which is under a meter of water down to VIC which is drier than a chip.   Hell I looked on a map and it looks all downhill to me. What with the economic "crisis" created entirely by greedy bankers it's a no brainer, and a perfect infra structure project for Kevin!   It would make the Snowy river project look like a minnow.

[donnnnnny]

I totally disagree with you me torurot.I will talk you though an area in NSW called Yalwal creek.It was declaired a wilderness in 1997 as the Ettrama extention.
This area used to be very lovely , with a fire trail cris crossing the yalwal creek from the stock yards in the south to the confluence with the Shoalhaven river in the north. When we used to drive and camp this track back in the 90.s it was a beautiful river bed with nice native vegetation and good water.
In 2003 i went for a walk into this so called wilderness only to be horrified by what it had become . IT is now a huge mass of weeds and other fuel from the surrounding trees.
SO in a matter of a few years this pristine area which us red neck 4 wheel drivers were "destroying" it had become a bloody mess. Lock it up and leave it is bullshit, and will never work.It is only a matter of time before this area goes up and the town of Nowra will be under threat.
feel free to read the above posted clipping from the Australian newspaper
Now for the canberra bush fires. Started by a lightning strike at a place called macintyres hut on the Goodradigbbee river.Anyway thats another story of bungling by the greens
Ps i am green but not extream

[Guest]

Last weeks latest ecological disaster in Australia.

[Guest]

Marine life threatened. Who knows the long term impact?

[andre459]

Sounds like it was only dumb luck the ship didn't sink. The captain tried to push through cyclone Hamish and cargo containers were dislodged that then caused damage to the hull. I hope the shipping company, Swire Shipping, are made to pay for the clean up - they initially estimated that only 20 tonnes of fuel was spilled when in reality it was about 250 tonnes. Like you BH I worry about the long term damage.


Some aerial pictures of the aftermath of the Victorian fires have been released that show the scale of the destruction. It'll be years before some of that country recovers.

http://mp3.news.com.au/hwt/zoom/index.html

These were the town of Marysville

[Guest]

Yes indeed, 60 kilomtres of pristine beaches and coastline. Its well north of where I live in Brizzy, but would have been much less impact if it hit our ports and seawalls. Would have endangered far less wildlife and made cleanup easier.

Great barrier reaf is also taking a lot of punishment in the last few decades, wonder how something like this affects that. Largest living thing on earth.

[andre459]

Another of Marysville

[andre459]

It seems there are always some sick bastards that are willing to profit from a tragedy. I just read this article in the lastest issue of the Skeptics magazine about a religious group that are trying to blame the fires on Victoria's abortion laws (Victoria recently decriminalised abortion). They reckon the fires were retribution from god. It makes me mad that people are allowed to spew such utter rubbish and hide behind the veil of religion.