Down with George Bush!

[azza33]

If it's not about oil, and it sure ain't about "democracy", then exactly what is it about?

That is a fantastic question!! .. i am serious!

I truly think that Oil is the easy option... if we can just say something simple... then it all just makes sense...

But what if its something bigger

Reminds me of a quote from a movie.... we are at war 24/7.. the public doesnt know it....


maybe there is something in that...

[azza33]

(JaiDee @ May 28 2008,20:48) The Hermit Kingdom indeed

those 2 nutjobs have a special place in hell sectioned off just for them

just for you Jaidee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apyB9...eature=related

[azza33]

One more

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-F...eature=related

[janabiyah]

(Torurot @ May 28 2008,20:22) The US IS now the "common enemy". Support the troops, leave now while they still live!

No way, the common enemy to all Middle Eastern Countries is Israel.

The difficulties in Iraq are currently working to the Israeli advantage as a lot of Assets are used up there.

Israel has no interest in developing good relations with it's neighbours when it can get away with US supported Jack Boot tactics.

The ever declining influence of the US in Mid East affairs is beginning to keep some people awake at night

[azza33]

The search for WMD - the facts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fn3JJ...eature=related

[pacman]

I agree with most of what has been written, but I consider the last role of the dice is still to come.

As part of his god-given mandate [& in a last ditch effort at leaving some sort of legacy] don't discount George W going into Iran.

Is he nutty enough to nuke their nuclear facilities, I have to say on his record to date, YES !!

Imagine the position Obama will confront having declared he wants out of the middle-east.

What comes next decides the election, which candidate endorses the action, which one runs up the white flag, honestly you couldn't write the script.

When GW ordered the 2nd & 3rd battle fleets to take up position around Iran, what are we to expect?
I doubt he can resist one last shot at the hard-liners who control Iran & who have ordered the de-stabilisation of Americas efforts to control Iraq.

Then what happens to the oil price?

When will the neo-cons wake up that their very presence in the Middle East has made everything worse.
While the US bankrupts itself fighting a war they can never win, you have the bizarre situation of George W calling on the Saudis two weeks ago to plead with them to help with the price of oil.

All the time while they are bombing & killing their muslim brothers.

What part of that idiocy don't they get ??

Of course he was politely refused, but what is the next POTUS going to do when gas prices rise above $6 a gallon on their way to $10 a gallon,
AS THEY MUST !!!!!!!!!

God bless America because no-one else will.

[Torurot]

>It's just strange for right-wing Americans to say 'well, we had
>to go and kick out Saddam, he was a tyrant'

Heard of Burma? How have those twisted fuck generals maintained power for 40+ years. Worse than Saddam ever was. Where's America on Burma? No oil? Lot's & lots of Meth but!

So no, it's sure not "democracy"!

[azza33]

(Torurot @ May 28 2008,21:12) Heard of Burma? How have those twisted fuck generals maintained power for 40+ years.

I'm punting after Vietnam, US is not that keen to go back to fight gorilla wars in SE Asia again...

Now i have food for thought -- here is a list of countries the US has bombed since WWII

Since World War II, the United States actually dropped bombs on 23 countries. These include: China 1945-46, Korea 1950-53, China 1950-53, Guatemala 1954, Indonesia 1958, Cuba 1959-60, Guatemala 1960, Congo 1964, Peru 1965, Laos 1964-73, Vietnam 1961-73, Cambodia 1969-70, Guatemala 1967-69, Grenada 1983, Lebanon 1984, Libya 1986, El Salvador 1980s, Nicaragua 1980s, Panama 1989, Iraq 1991-1999, Sudan 1998, Afghanistan 1998, and Yugoslavia 1999.

I am not knowledable on most of these conflicts... but we have the facts in front of us now....

So which ones are oil and which are not??

[Monkey]

(Torurot @ May 28 2008,12:12) Heard of Burma? How have those twisted fuck generals maintained power for 40+ years. Worse than Saddam ever was. Where's America on Burma?  No oil?  Lot's & lots of Meth but!

They've got oil but they are letting us drill it...

You never heard of Burma Oil??

http://burma.total.com/en/contexte/p_1_2.htm

There's plenty of Western oil companies out there plus China have an interest as well.

In 2007, nine foreign oil companies (Myanmar Petroleum Resources Ltd, Focus Energy Ltd, Westburne, China National Offshore Oil Corporation, China National Petrochemical Corporation, Sinopec, Essar, Goldpetrol and a representative of the Kalmik republic) are involved in 16 onshore blocks to explore new areas (EP blocks), to enhance recovery from existing fields (IOR blocks), to reactivate fields where production has been suspended (RFS blocks) and to produce (PSCs).

For the offshore area, Total, Petronas Carigali Myanmar, Daewoo, PTT-EP, China National Offshore Oil Corporation, China National Petrochemical Corporation, Essar, Gail and Rimbunam (Malaysia) are exploring and/or developing 29 blocks.

I figure people don't want to piss off the Generals.

[JaiDee]

(Torurot @ May 28 2008,21:12) >It's just strange for right-wing Americans to say 'well, we had
>to go and kick out Saddam, he was a tyrant'

Heard of Burma? How have those twisted fuck generals maintained power for 40+ years. Worse than Saddam ever was. Where's America on Burma?  No oil?  Lot's & lots of Meth but!

you're making my case for me

see, here in the land of the over-taxed and the bored, we have a lot of right-wing yahoo's who can not make the case any longer that  Iraq was about WMD's or 9/11 or anything else to do with the REAL reasons we went to war.   So now they say " well, Saddam was a tyrant and a bad guy, no matter what the reasons we did the right thing getting him out of there".


 Huh?      


          As mentioned earlier, if that were the reason we'd have about 20 totalitarian regimes around the world since 2001 to dump. and yes I have heard of Burma, the people there and in Cambodia are the nicest people I have ever met; if you listen to the right-wingers here then we'd have gone in there a long time ago, along with Nepal and don't forget China!  Now THAT would be fun!


Ever heard of Enver Hoxha? That old fuck was running gulags in Albania as late as the 70's and his backwards country was more like 1870 than 1970.... if ever there was a case to remove a tyrant, he would be one.

 Plus Kim, Castro, Mao,  etc, etc..... the names can go on and on if you believe the righties who say "Iraq is a fair and a just war, he was killing his people".

       as I mentioned way back, 3rd world countries still like the USA ......we have [tried to] poured millions into Burmese aid for the cyclone victims, BILLIONS into most developing nations over the years, we are the country most front and center [and with the most cash] in Egypt right now as their food crises worsens, and the people in places like Cambo and most African nations think it's heaven on earth here;  I know because my city is a federal re-location center.

           But western countries rightfully look at us as warmongers these days and we have ol' GW to thank for that .... the people who support GW, try travelling in Europe these days and tell me when you come back if you still feel like he will go down as a great prez.... this texas hick  has ruined us in the eyes of the world.

[rxpharm]

Politics and religion, two topics sure to bring out the best in forum posters!

Indeed history will make the final judgement on GWB II's presidential reign, but I am sure it will not be anywhere near the best presidencies.

Azza33, you are trying to defend the indefensible - right, he did the best he could because of the circumstances. You actually think this is an excuse to make the huge mistakes like New Orleans (nothing to do with Iraq) etc, etc, etc, etc.? Maybe you should read Scott McClellan's (former press secretary) book which is based on more reality than Paul Wolfowitz's Neocon theories, which are now shown to be based on faulty assumptions.

By the way Bush doesn't have 1000's of advisors, because the majority of advisors told him NOT to invade Iraq - he relies on his inner circle of about 5-10 senior advisors, including the worst of the lot Dick Cheney.

Ignorance, stupidity and arrogance do not excuse bad judgment, bad decisions and terrible actions. This is like saying, it wasn't the drunk driver's fault he killed the boy - he was drunk, not control of his actions!

As for down with America - I have to disagree with that, but I do agree with down with GWB II!

[JaiDee]

(rxpharm @ May 29 2008,00:25) Politics and religion, two topics sure to bring out the best in forum posters!  

that's for sure..... and good to see that a lot of points can be made without personal attacks on other people for the most part.

I like this room a lot, it brings out so many different viewpoints on a variety of subjects.

religion? now THAT would start some fights!

Grrr..... raised Irish Catholic... please don't get me started on how bad THAT is!

anyone for the pro-life debate?? heh heh

[seanbeag7]

Rxpharm has just changed the title at my request, as i have offended kahuna and that was not my intention, i am sorry, this thread was started by an idea and me feeling very pissed off as one of my relations is married in the states for 4 years and he has been told that if he leaves the country to visit his family back in ireland, he will not be able to re-enter the states again.

[kahuna]

I"ll say that this thread has been good for one thing...

I learned much about some BM's...Those who "hate" Yanks and call for our demise just because of where we happened to be born...Some surprises I suppose...and some not...

At least I know who to share a beer with now...

[seanbeag7]

If you feel that way kahuna, fine by me, but i do not "hate" yanks, and anyone one who knows me knows that.

All i ever said was that a certain yank by the name of GEORGE W. Bush was an asshole and is the worst president in the history of the united states, but then again american history is about 200 years old compare to europe whose history is thousands of years old.

Kahuna if you don't accept my apologies, that's fine, but do not think for a sec that you know or understand me, you are sadly mistaken.

I am and always will be a good person who if i make a mistake i will apologise and hope it is forgoten, but i stand by what i say.