Ideas on Religion

[stogie bear]

(Tomcat @ Aug. 27 2006,14:03) And besides that everyone knows that the answer to the meaning of life is 42.

Aw, prairie shit! I was one off!

[Stewart]

And besides that everyone knows that the answer to the meaning of life is 42.

Aw, prairie shit! I was one off!

I always thought it was 43 as well!

[Stewart]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Answer_to_Life.png

Ooops, it was 42!

[Stewart]

A little while back, Stogie Bear made some provacative remarks about religion; Christianity to be precise. If memory serves, he said the effects of Christianity on a person was worse than having been raped as a child

I accept that S.B. has strong negative feelings about Christianityand I would never tell him he should not express himself in any way he chooses. But as a Christian myself, albeit a poor one, I must stand up for my Savior. My relationship with the Lord has brought me a contentment that I had never previously known. Whether or not you decide to make the same decision as myself or you side with S.B., we still should be able to respect each others' opinions without emnity

I have been building up to this for 3 days now!!  

Why are Stogies remarks 'provocative' and 'negative'? Sounds very pragmatic and accurate to me. YOUR posting was provocative from my point of view.

Religion is pure poison that has a much longer term effect on someone that a physical assault, no matter how horrible the physical assault.

Very few rape victims go out and rape other people. People who have the poison of religion find it difficult NOT to try to poison other people.

Why should we respect each others views? You deserve to be spat on for supporting the biggest scam in the history of world, and the thing that has been responsible for more deaths and misery than anything else I can think of.

'Religion' should be a personal thing on the level of smoking....banned in public places, and participants sent to smoking rooms/churches to spread their particular type of cancer amongst themselves, and not allowed near the rest of us.

The bible?...my bet is that a couple of dudes sat down in a field one day and were smoking some   and made up a few lines for a joke....

Give me some science anyday!

[Stewart]

Oh well, so much for the quotes button....but you get the idea!

[allstar88]

each to thier own but i find most religion works of fiction          

[Guest]

screww organized religion..find your own path and be happy with who you are. then don't force your beliefs on others but accept that they have theirs and accept who they are and try and be freinds then drink and smoke. you'll be supprised how well you will get along with people.

[Guest]

I'm with Stogie.

I don't believe in invisible people who live in the sky and tell me where not to touch myself.

In my American Lit class, we just got started this week with native American creation stories. They are all just as silly as the Christian stories or Hindu stories.

Every aspect of Christianity, or any religious life either does or does not still work when you remove the element of the religious deity.

There is a "Christian Financial counselor" whose class I have actually taken and learned from, but when you remove all the Bible versus, the simple math of income , outgo, and debt still works.

The same holds true for anyone who says religion has made them happy, etc. Well, obviously there are plenty of people who are happy of any faith, and of no faith at all. As well, there are plenty of Christians who committ suicide.

If the physics of a car wreck dictate that you die, then you die. If the physics of a car wreck dictate that you live, then you live. I have yet to see any clear indication of divine intervention although I have heard plenty of sheeple that believe whatever they want to make themselves psychologically feel special.

Many people who are anti-religion talk about the personal effect on individuals, like Stogie mentioned- or they talk about the mass damage of wars and such inthe name of religion.

While I agree with those to some extent, my chief argument is something even broader.

My problem with religion is that is has created widespread magical thinking. I can think of nothing more dangerous to the entire world than they proliferation of magical thinking instead of rational skepticism and the scientific method. Just about every horror of man against man can be attributed to magical thinking instead of rationalism.

[Guest]

When I decided to post this topic, I knew that the chances of pursuading most viewers was minimal. But, I thought that civil discourse was possible. And, I am gratified that some have chosen to do so.

And whoever said religion was not reasonable is correct - it is built on faith which is the antithesis of reason. But, evolution is just as much built on faith. There is no record of how creatures evolve; no video, no written documentation, no empirical evidence. Yet, people make the leap of faith to believe in it.

Unfortunately, the above debate is unwinnable because matters of faith cant be proven. What should be possible though is an explanation of why religion is offensive to some of you. Stogie Bear clearly articulated his animosity, and it seems apparent that he will not be soothed by anything I post. But, I hold out hope that someone else may be.

PS. To whoever revelled in my lag in response time, I am sorry that my life sometimes intrudes upon my internet purusals. I hope you arent too let down. Oh, and if you would care to enter a boxing ring, I am at your disposal.

[andre459]

This should go in the thread about what bugs you the most. I hate the statement that evolution is about faith, I'm sorry but evolution is not a question of faith it is a fact. Faith has nothing to do with science it is about logical free thinking, research, data and  analysis. You only have to look at fossil records to realise that evolution has occured.

I agree with what you said about not being able to change others opinions but unfortunately some people have theirs made for them when they are brainwashed with fairy tales.

I have no problem with people who want to take morals or meaning out of the religious stories just don't try tell us they are historical facts, as Jospeh Campbell would say you are "missing the metaphor".

Religion is a social phenomenon which obviously fills a need for some people. To quote Barry Williams an Australian skeptic "the impulse to religion is a bit like masturbation; if it did not satisfy some real need within the human species, then it is unlikely that so many people would indulge in it". Just don't brainwash everyone else.

[Stewart]

I hate the statement that evolution is about faith, I'm sorry but evolution is not a question of faith it is a fact. Faith has nothing to do with science it is about logical free thinking, research, data and analysis. You only have to look at fossil records to realise that evolution has occured.

Thank you Andre....i would have responded sooner, but I bumped my head when I fell off my chair laughing at this one.....

But, evolution is just as much built on faith. There is no record of how creatures evolve; no video, no written documentation, no empirical evidence. Yet, people make the leap of faith to believe in it.

What are you talking about? People like you are dangerous

[Guest]

I'll keep this as brief as I can...as this sort of argument is as old as humanity itself...and, in almost every circumstance, boils down to the same (boring) clash of viewpoints between religious delusionoids and otherwise pragmatic, productive, perhaps even humble, folks. Pretentious academic types, of course, would choose to use "philosophical" terms and say it's the longstanding clash between the "paradoxical dualist" and the "monistic materialist" types. At any rate...

I am fundamentally opposed to ALL organized religious "teaching" for the following reasons;

(1) PRETENSE. Period. Meditation and actual spiritual (as in psychological, NOT as in "religious" or "holy") practices aside, I find it sheer retardation that members of "religious" cults seem to somehow think that being repeatedly subjected to/believing/regurgitating fables/religious-symbologies justifies their viewpoints as not being entirely delusional. ...or having a higher likelihood of LOOKING legitimate because the priests/etc wear fancy costumes and bear the same ages-old talismans. Sounds like one big happy church-going CULT-ure club of easily-manipulated delusionoids to me. Misery loves company and there is safety in numbers, eh? At a pragmatic level, since when is being attached to several thousand year old fairy tales (no offense) a way to improve your intelligence, creativity, and perhaps knowledge of scientific discoveries? Those qualities tend to define if one will (should?) survive and thrive. Organized religion is FAR more concerned with the survivability of its own social and political interests, and not the Natural survival-of-the-fittest paradigm which all living organisms here on earth seem to be a part of.

The "human"istic arrogance of religious fantasy likes to promote the idea that "unity", "compassion", and "mercy" (etc) are what's "right", maybe even what "God wants"... The SHEER ARROGANCE of ANYBODY who thinks they somehow are in a Universally-privileged position to actually represent what "God wants". While social and political interests are well-served by such ethics-ideals...I got news for you... This is a Universe where Entropy is the rule of Law and not everything is so rosy, peaceful, and welcome; Colliding galaxies, Natural disasters, etc... "God" is responsible for all these too, I guess. If only "God" could be more "loving" and "compassionate".

Such Grand Pretense manifests its toll throughout a lifetime in such wonderful ways as a woman being an obnoxious BITCH with a princess complex the size of Israel. ...or a princess-whore duality where, because mommy and daddy taught her that submission is "right", she doesn't understand why she's driven to be a totally desperate cocksucking scatterbrained slut for many years of her life. ...or how celebrating martyrdom can ultimately cause a person to "crucify" themselves socially (so to speak) and then be a depraved fame-whore.

(2) UNNECESSARY. Period. (Non-religious) traumatic experiences aside...take a newborn child, raise him (or her) in an (officially) "Godless" yet exciting, intriguing, and creativity-encouraging environment and capacity. Given enough developmental time, what you'll see is... the kid will very likely do just fine. Furthermore, if young children are so (intrinsically) "innocent" and excited with their new world around them... Then... WHY FUCK WITH THEM AT ALL by subjecting their "innocent" minds to religious symbolism? It seems entirely foolish to me to subject such young consciousness to the intelligence-damaging and "guilt"/anxiety/neurosis-encouraging ideologies of organized religious teachings.

AND THIS IS WHERE I SWITCH TO ALL CAPS AND END ANY AND ALL NOTIONS OF MY SITTING ON THE FENCE, PHILOSOPHICALLY... I SAY FUCK PRIESTS AND FUCK ALL ORGANIZED RELIGIOUS LEADERS FOR REGURGITATING THEIR DELUSIONAL METAPHYSICAL BRANDING TO PEOPLE WHO THEY KNOW ARE TOO YOUNG TO GRASP ITS DEEP SOCIAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPLEXITY. THIS IS WHERE I PROUDLY ASSERT MY OPINION THAT REPEATEDLY SUBJECTING A CHILD TO AN "OFFICIALLY" RELIGIOUS (metaphysically pretentious) SOCIAL ENVIRONMENT IS THE EQUIVALENT OF RAPING THAT CHILD. YES, MOTHERFUCKING RAPE. YOU HEARD ME RIGHT.

(3) PRECIPITATES SLAVE-MORALITY via teaching SUBMISSION. Free Will. "God" gifted the human organism with the power of making choices...including (so-called) "immoral" ones. I say use your free will to develop your knowledge and intelligence, and thus best express yourself more creatively. That is empowering. Going to church and accepting-on-faith delusionoid hand-me-downs is mere slavery and submission. ORGANIZED religion is just another brand of politics, as far as I'm concerned.

I could probably go on ad naseum with a hundred or more points-of-criticism...but I won't waste my time (or yours).

You may want to read the following (famous?) philosophical viewpoint on this very subject;

http://www.fns.org.uk/ac.htm

I've always considered it to be one of the most no-bullshit in-your-face assaults on the corrupt forces of organized religion.

[Guest]

Sir Arthur Keith wrote the forward to the 100th anniversary edition of Darwin€™s Descent of Man. In it he states:

€œEvolution is unproven and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation and that is unthinkable.€

This is one of Darwin's staunchest defenders, and he recognizes that science cannot prove evolution. Therefore, if beleif in it is not taken from reason, it is taken by a leap of faith.

[Guest]

Sorry I have no real intelengent information to inject amongst all the great posts - just want to rant! But one thing ... the ugliest thing I have seen in my trip to LOS this July is the moron couple wearing "Jesus loves Thailand" T-shirt. Thank "God" they are heading back to Atlanta. If Thailand loves Jesus back, and let's pray to Shiva and Rama and whoever the fuck she won't, we will never ever see another stunner LB again. Just imagine if Nana plaza can ever possiblly exist among these freaks in North Carolina, Texas or Mississipi (I am not the only southerner who can't spell. Ask our president how to spell the poorest state in the union.)
Dry county ...  

[Guest]

In "curb your enthusiasm"  Larry David said "I like lobster, but I don't go to Africa to ask others to like lobster too." (not exact quote, but you get the idea). Sometime I feel we were a bit too harsh on Christians. after all, people have rights to believe Jesus walking on water or water into wine. However, if you don't quit waering "jesus loves thailand" T-shirt in Tokyo, it's hard for us to form any rel sympathy man ....
You have to give us a break from lobsters....