Flying by Air- the carbon footprint

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

Let's not start this hippy debate again. Fags who believe this crap have plenty of hippy forums they can spout off on.

[Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!)]

 Hippy threads merged!

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!) @ Jan. 07 2008,12:56) Let's not start this hippy debate again. Fags who believe this crap have plenty of hippy forums they can spout off on.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(FB-lover! @ Jan. 07 2008,12:54) I guess the idea of caring about anything but your dick, is difficult for you to comprehend...but some people actually do.

You care about my dick ?!

You are a fag!

[Tomcat]

(Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!) @ Jan. 07 2008,12:56) Let's not start this hippy debate again. Fags who believe this crap have plenty of hippy forums they can spout off on.  

Then just delete the whole thread for fucks sake.

[Stewart]

(Tomcat @ Jan. 08 2008,02:09)

(Mr. GRUMPY (Grrr!) @ Jan. 07 2008,12:56) Let's not start this hippy debate again. Fags who believe this crap have plenty of hippy forums they can spout off on.  

Then just delete the whole thread for fucks sake.

Yet again, Mr Stogie resorts to name calling when it is a subject that does not fit with his way of thinking.

I agree with Tomcat. In that case, delete this thread, the fish box, academia, threads about hotels and travel etc.....there are lots of other forums you can discuss that kind of stuff in after all.

Small extract from the IPCC reports:

Numerous experiments have been conducted using climate
models to determine the likely causes of the 20th-century cli-
mate change. These experiments indicate that models cannot
reproduce the rapid warming observed in recent decades when
they only take into account variations in solar output and vol-
canic activity.
However, as shown in Figure 1, models are able
to simulate the observed 20th-century changes in temperature
when they include all of the most important external factors,
including human influences from sources such as greenhouse
gases and natural external factors. The model-estimated re-
sponses to these external factors are detectable in the 20th-cen-
tury climate globally and in each individual continent except
Antarctica, where there are insufficient observations.
The hu-
man influence on climate very likely dominates over all other
causes of change in global average surface temperature during
the past half century.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Stewart @ Jan. 08 2008,10:14) Small extract from the IPCC reports:

Numerous experiments have been conducted using climate
models to determine the likely causes of the 20th-century cli-
mate change. These experiments indicate that models cannot reproduce the rapid warming observed in recent decades when they only take into account variations in solar output

The IPCC report is a group opinion. A group opinion proves nothing and is not science.

[Tomcat]

You should have kept your old name Sangabriel... you give yourself away with the snipe at Gore .. no one hates him that much..or do they?

Anyway Fred I thought you had a Science background .
So you would would know that Scientists never ever claim to know the absolute truth ..they just try to make progress. The IPCC is a work in progress and is based on evidence given by many Scientists and that is it.
Back of the beer mat knowledge or folk wisdom dont count these days.

To say its not Science is just pure rubbish.. and you know it .

[Stewart]

(Fred_Nguyen @ Jan. 07 2008,11:47) Given the number of worldwide cold events, it is no surprise that 2007 didn't turn out to be the warmest ever. In fact, 2007's global temperature was essentially the same as that in 2006 - and 2005, and 2004, and every year back to 2001. The record set in 1998 has not been surpassed. For nearly a decade now, there has been no global warming. Even though atmospheric carbon dioxide continues to accumulate - it's up about 4 percent since 1998 - the global mean temperature has remained flat.

The non-scientific article you pasted is just a serious of individual occurrences picked up by a Boston Globe journalist, not any kind of science!

From the 2007 IPCC report

Warming of the planet

Cold days, cold nights, and frost events have become less frequent. Hot days, hot nights, and heat waves have become more frequent. Additionally:

- Eleven of the twelve years in the period (1995-2006) rank among the top 12 warmest years in the instrumental record (since 1850, towards the end of the Little Ice Age).
- Warming in the last 100 years has caused about a 0.74 °C increase in global average temperature. This is up from the 0.6 °C increase in the 100 years prior to the Third Assessment Report.
- Urban heat island effects were determined to have negligible influence (less than 0.0006 °C per decade over land and zero over oceans) on these measurements.
- Observations since 1961 show that the ocean has been absorbing more than 80% of the heat added to the climate system, and that ocean temperatures have increased to depths of at least 3000 m (9800 ft).
- "Average Arctic temperatures increased at almost twice the global average rate in the past 100 years."
- It is likely that greenhouse gases would have caused more warming than we have observed if not for the cooling effects of volcanic and human-caused aerosols. See global dimming.
- Average Northern Hemisphere temperatures during the second half of the 20th century were very likely higher than during any other 50-year period in the last 500 years and likely the highest in at least the past 1300 years (a time near the beginning of the Little Ice Age).

[Stewart]

(Fred_Nguyen @ Jan. 08 2008,19:30)

(Stewart @ Jan. 08 2008,10:14) Small extract from the IPCC reports:

Numerous experiments have been conducted using climate
models to determine the likely causes of the 20th-century cli-
mate change. These experiments indicate that models cannot reproduce the rapid warming observed in recent decades when they only take into account variations in solar output

The IPCC report is a group opinion. A group opinion proves nothing and is not science.

I am still shaking my head at this one!

One of the observed results of the IPCC process is that the process leads to an element of lowest common denominator creeping in ie the published results are CONSERVATIVE, and so the reality might be worse.

So, you are actually supporting the people who believe climate change is a problem with your comment that it is a group opinion. Well done.

To try to say with a straight face that there is not a huge amount of scientific credibility behind the IPCC is breathtaking in its stupidity...even for you

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Stewart @ Jan. 09 2008,01:23) I am still shaking my head at this one!

One of the observed results of the IPCC process is that the process leads to an element of lowest common denominator creeping in ie the published results are CONSERVATIVE, and so the reality might be worse.

So, you are actually supporting the people who believe climate change is a problem with your comment that it is a group opinion. Well done.

To try to say with a straight face that there is not a huge amount of scientific credibility behind the IPCC is breathtaking in its stupidity...even for you

This is your own opinion.

Furthermore, with your last statement, you are essentially calling me stupid because we disagree on global warming (!), but you get your panties in a bunch because Stogie called someone a name.

You are a hypocrite.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Stewart @ Jan. 09 2008,01:13) The non-scientific article you pasted is just a serious of individual occurrences picked up by a Boston Globe journalist, not any kind of science!

From the 2007 IPCC report

Warming of the planet

Cold days, cold nights, and frost events have become less frequent. Hot days, hot nights, and heat waves have become more frequent. Additionally:

- Eleven of the twelve years in the period (1995-2006) rank among the top 12 warmest years in the instrumental record (since 1850, towards the end of the Little Ice Age).
- Warming in the last 100 years has caused about a 0.74 °C increase in global average temperature. This is up from the 0.6 °C increase in the 100 years prior to the Third Assessment Report.
- Urban heat island effects were determined to have negligible influence (less than 0.0006 °C per decade over land and zero over oceans) on these measurements.
- Observations since 1961 show that the ocean has been absorbing more than 80% of the heat added to the climate system, and that ocean temperatures have increased to depths of at least 3000 m (9800 ft).
- "Average Arctic temperatures increased at almost twice the global average rate in the past 100 years."
- It is likely that greenhouse gases would have caused more warming than we have observed if not for the cooling effects of volcanic and human-caused aerosols. See global dimming.
- Average Northern Hemisphere temperatures during the second half of the 20th century were very likely higher than during any other 50-year period in the last 500 years and likely the highest in at least the past 1300 years (a time near the beginning of the Little Ice Age).

The sky is indeed falling.

[Fred_Nguyen]

(Tomcat @ Jan. 08 2008,21:14) You should have kept your old name Sangabriel... you give yourself away with the snipe at Gore .. no one hates him that much..or do they?

Anyway Fred I thought you had a Science background .
So you would would know that Scientists never ever claim to know the absolute truth ..they just try to make progress. The IPCC is a work in progress and is based on evidence given by many Scientists and that is it.
Back of the beer mat knowledge or folk wisdom dont count these days.

To say its not Science is just pure rubbish.. and you know it .

Go on believing Gormless to be the Nobel-prize deserving god that you blinkered blokes hold him out as.

I'm siding with the red-blooded yanks on this one. And yes, people in America really do hate Gore that much.

If others have said as much they are spot on. And yes, this IPCC report is complete rubbish.

[thaibound]

(Fred_Nguyen @ Jan. 08 2008,18:52) And yes, people in America really do hate Gore that much.

only the ones who voted for the creationist who won the iowa caucus last week. i think 'intelligent design' would be a better example of 'group opinion' passing itself off as science. i'd have to put global warming closer to the 'evolution' end of the spectrum.

[stogie bear]

There are many ways that we can clean up the planet and make life safer. Recycling makes sense and having lots of trees about the place sure looks pretty.

What I find to be the equivilent of 'religeon' is the blind acceptance that if we do NOT do these things the world is going to end!

The problem is that the west with their political approach amounts to pissing in the sea. Untill the whole planet decides to work together (and it never will) then you may as well just enjoy the place while you can.

When you see the trillions of lightbulbs burning needlessly in shops all over Asia and then an advert on the TV in the UK proudly saves 10p then you realise what a joke it all is.

Over population will sort it self out. There will have to be mass genocide to do this and wars will take care of it. (Say goodbye to Europe!)