Flying by Air- the carbon footprint

[Guest]

If it helps anyone sleep better at night, I can give you one simple slice of the issue.

CO2 is only a fraction of the gases that cause the greenhouse effect. The majority of the greenhouse gas group is, surprise- water vapor.

CO2 accounts for somewhere around 3% of the global greenhouse effect. (I'm pulling that number from memory, so don't hold me to 3% exactly, but it is miniscule at any rate).

About 52% of human created CO2 is simply reabsorbed through natural planetary cycle processes. i.e. plants absorb it and grow more.

There are other factors involved that make our input even smaller than 48% of 3%, but I don't remember them off the top of my head. The bottom line is, all you are told is the scariest numbers they can come up with.

No one is putting those numbers in proportion.

I have tons of "global warming" data that completely puts the lie to the green-goblins BS. If anyone cares enough let me know and I'll go look it up. I don't suspect any of you really care that much though.

The bottom line is, we are a pimple on the earth. It is the height of arrogance to think that we can change the climate.

[donnnnnny]

%93 of all green house gas is naturally occuring.
we have gone from global warming to climate change??? one catch fraze to another.
has it occured to anyone that the worlds climate has constantly changed since the begining.
A million odd years ago australia was temprat rain forrest. we have been drifting north and hence into a dry area, so we are now a dessert with fringes of forrest in the north ,tassy and up the east coast. remnants of the past.
if mans activities have anything to do with climate change i for one would be very fucking surprised..
will the wanking ever end
ps if we do something about it now how many 100's of years will it take to have an affect if it does have an affect??hmmmmmmmmmmmm

No what we have is a media which has gone completly power mad, a bit like old hitler 60 years ago
cheers donnnnny

[Tomcat]

(grunyen @ Feb. 06 2007,10:44) CO2 accounts for somewhere around 3% of the global greenhouse effect. (I'm pulling that number from memory, so don't hold me to 3% exactly, but it is miniscule at any rate).

Your quite correct there Grunyen but the claim is that with projected Air travel to increase at an exponential rate it will hit a figure of around 25% or more in a short time. I dont think even Govts dispute that...

remember that the fact that the emissions are higher up in the atmosphere and so the effect is magnified around 2 to 4 times that of ground emmisions.

As for Donnnys post...
Actually the problem is probably a lot worse than we think as it was only discoverd last week that many US Scientists were gagged and that its worse than we are being told. Anyway i have a massive carbon footprint so i would be on the ecos hit list for sure......If you live in Europe the days of cheap flying are numberd...

two years ago the smog in Hong Kong was one day in ten .... today its one day in five according to a UN report.
Many diplomats send there kids to school in the PI as the pollution is getting so bad.

I am not an Eco Warrior but the problems wont go away whatever is causing them.

[Tomcat]

(katoeylover @ Feb. 06 2007,02:29) whats next?

Carbon trading....

for instance if you cancel your next trip to Thailand it will offset the Carbon emissions for my own flight... the trade off is that you can bask in the warm glow of having done the right thing and i can relax knowing that +1 and -1 = 0

[katoeylover]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 06 2007,17:18) ..If you live in Europe the days of cheap flying are numberd...

Agree, but this is just the short haul, low price airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair.

A £40 tax on these flights make them too expensive for the average punter.

[Tomcat]

http://www.unlimited-spurt.org/

here the link to the Advert

[allstar88]

unless the u.s. ,china and india do the same as u.k. ,it is a waste of time  it is a p.r. stunt by the goverment to make more money from taxing the poor the goverment fly all over the world and blair has his copter to go to the corner shop we also have prince charles telling us to go green as he takes his private jet to get an award in the u.s. for his work on climate change and the tories will be the same with cameron on his bike going to work with his limo behind him my names ben elton goodnight

[katoeylover]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 06 2007,17:32)

(katoeylover @ Feb. 06 2007,02:29) whats next?

Carbon trading....

for instance if you cancel your next trip to Thailand it will offset the Carbon emissions for my own flight... the trade off is that you can bask in the warm glow of having done the right thing and i can relax knowing that +1 and -1 = 0

In your dreams, sunshine!!

[Groundhog]

(Tomcat @ Feb. 05 2007,22:55) " didnt fight in two world wars to see communist liberals tell me , or my shareholders, what to do"

"Climate change hits the poorest hardest, but but those who fly have money. Its not our problems its theirs"

" As a businessman i have shareholders to think about but those yogurt peddlers wont shut up about the poor and starving, who dont even fly"

" Those eco losers think that money is bad, unless your giving it to them but putting profit before the planet is what got us here"

" SOD THEM, LETS FLY"

It has to be those Russian oligarchs ... they all live in Blighty anyway ...

... and we now know that the melting Siberian permafrost is warming the atmosphere more than all the petrol powered machines in the world ....

... it's a Russian conspiracy, I tell you...



... but I still can't figure out what the hell this advert is talking about.

[stogie bear]

(Groundhog @ Feb. 07 2007,07:09) ... but I still can't figure out what the hell this advert is talking about.

GOOD! I thought it was just me!

[Guest]

Tomcat, the government is the problem.

The reason eco-garbage is such a big issue is that the green-weenies and the government finally found something they both agree on.

The government wants it because it is the ultimate excuse for more control and power. The green-weenies want it because... well, because they actualy haven't a clue about how the planet they supposedly love really works.

Everything you need to know is in the original IPCC report (1999? I believe). The scientists specifically wrote that there was no discernable human influence. After the scientists left the conference, the governments beaurocrats changed the language to say that there WAS a definate human influence.

There is a great film, British I believe, called "Doomsday called off". You can find it on Piratebay.

There are plenty of other sources. There is a great fiction story if you can't be bothered to actually read the dry science. Michael Chrichton, author of Jurassic Park wrote "State of Fear" a few years ago and he predicted this whole name change from the vague "global warming", to the scary "climate change".

"State of Fear" is a fictional story, a thriller, but all the science he uses in the book is real. Everything is footnoted and referenced, and there is a great bibliography that tells you where to look if you are interested in following up. It's a great read, and very educational at the same time.

For the layman who wants to understand the political, monetary, and ecological ramifications, it's my number 1 recommendation.

[katoeylover]

Great book, readit in Hua Hin on my last trip. Over 650 pages in 3 days, couldn't put it down.

Makes you wonder where these guys are coming from.

[Tomcat]

(grunyen @ Feb. 07 2007,11:28) Everything you need to know is in the original IPCC report (1999? I believe). The scientists specifically wrote that there was no discernable human influence.

We are in 2007 now

Well you need you read the Journals. Scientists in the USA have been gagged by the Govt and the picture is far worse than we are told. The computers that model climate are exponentially more powerfull each year and the concencus that was 50-50 amongst Scientists is now 90-10 that we are the problem.

Yes, blame the USA Govt for hiding facts. Even GWB now realises that its a problem

its  amazing that people trust Science when is suits them. two weeks ago a report was published about a drug that may be  a cure for cancer but as its wasnt patentable no Company would invest. tens of thousands wanted it even though it has never been tested. All of a sudden Science has the answer, because it suits them.

Also take take the Creationist nuts, they hate Science until they themselves are on the operating table.

Blame the guys that hide the facts.

[Tomcat]

(stogie bear @ Feb. 07 2007,09:08)

(Groundhog @ Feb. 07 2007,07:09) ... but I still can't figure out what the hell this advert is talking about.

GOOD! I thought it was just me!  

Sorry Stogie

If you click on the link and then the Advert you will see a two page avert that was published in a few quality papers last week.

Its supposed to be a for and against debate article but in fact the Eco- warriers wrote both Adverts.

the pro flyiing lot are made out to be right wing loonies.

[donnnnnny]

ya all base don computer models. crey super computers.by the way we have only been able to acuratly read earth surface temps sincethe 1970s with satalite technology, sowhat are the computers using t for data [prior to this.
media frenzy politicalbull shit oh fuck it im off 4wheeling in the big diesel. might have a few beerson the beqach to, or is that not allowed because of the carbon tax???on beer production/
I LOVE GLOBAL WARMING