Truth or Dare

[Guest]

www.thaivisa.com is well known to have some completely false 'truths' in various posts...much like this forum.

Over the years, there have been unbelievable posts regarding Ladyboys or bars, by people who have never been here, Phuket, by people who never been there, or even just Patpong, by people who maybe have been there.

As a sample, I visited Patpong tonite. All the toots did what is there job, which is to invite me in to their establishment. In all cases, I just nodded my head no, and not once did someone follow me or ask me again. In fact, they were admirably polite, no more nor less so than the toots at Nana and Cowboy.

Likewise I spent about 2 hours in KC3, and watched, as always, a collection of average, and far above average Ladbyoys. In fact, KC3 is improving, as there are no longer 'true' girls, and the mamasan has definitely toned down the aggressivenes, to the point it is lame compared to Nana or even Guess Bar. With signing the bill for every drink, it has turned itself around almost too far.

This is in direct contradiction to some other posts.

In December, I will go, for perhaps the 30th time, to lovely Phuket; the No.1 tourist destination in Asia. It is that for a very good reason, namely, it is one of the most beautiful places in the world. And, as usual, I will look at some of the most beautiful ladyboys in all of Thailand, if not the world, dance at the most unique outdoor bar in the world.

This too is in direct contradiction to many, many other reports about Phuket.

Then there are those who claim they are against underage girls but had underage girlfriends, or those who say people who bottom are gay, but they themselves date gays (vs ladyboys), and on and on.

So while thaivisa.com is somewhat of a farce at times for accuracy, this forum is often the same. My advice for  readers is to watch people who post who actually live here, visit bars, visit Phuket, and have a history of giving a less biased view of some situations.

You may choose my reality to not be yours and that is your perogative I suppose; but my main point is...don't believe most of what you read!

[mardhi]

Interesting observation Ziggy - last time I was in KC3 I was threatened that if I did not buy some skank a drink - I would regret it on the street outside. needless to say she knew exactly who I was, and who I stay with. Suffice to say, I just told her to go and get a life and bought a drink for someone else. But as a fan of KC3 I have not noticed any dramatic change in behaviour - every service guy is after a tip over and above regular tip just for doing his job and still they display the "tip 100baht" card for the gulible.

KC3 is an experience - its a tourist experience always has been and always will be - nothing has changed in my opinion.

Cheers
Mardhi

[stogie bear]

You may choose my reality to not be yours and that is your perogative I suppose; but my main point is...don't believe most of what you read!

Good advice. It's important to remember that these message boards are primarily for entertainment.

If it is a crucible of knowledge of the ladyboy scene that you seek then there is no better place than THIS forum for updated, opinionated and recent news and information...

...but like you say... Opinions and results vary from person to person and it's important to be able to disseminate the facts from the (often bizarre) fiction.

[azza33]

interesting post~~

Not sure i agree with some of your thinking...


The forum of us "travellers" is simply expressing what are our observations and experiences.

Seems certain places like Patpong get much bad press, not because of bias, but overwhelmingly people have negative experiences when dropping by....

Should that stop another forum reader going; well thats up to that reader....

But at least it provides them with a valuable warning and guidance for those areas which are less savory should they wish to visit.

I see that as only good thing.

One thing i do agree with however, is if you haven't been somewhere, dont bag the place on hearsay and write and "informed" opinion about it.

I, like you, love Phuket and there seems to be some forum people who are too eager to degenegrate the place before they give it a go.

I really don't understand why they have that attitude, nor why they would choose to express a negative opinion about a destination without having actually visited.

I can hear all the "free speechers" up in arms about now... but seriously i hope they can understand that this forum can be used very constructively, if people post actual travel reports and reviews.


I'm not as negative as the original post....

You can believe a lot of what you read here....But keep an open mind always (peoples informed opinions are a valuable resource).... But don't let it stop you exploring on your own travels

[alan1chef]

Good advice...all of it. As someone who has never been to Thailand, I find this forum to be a very good source of information. Different people will have different experiences at the same bar and it is important that we value those differences. It is also important for us posters to make sure that readers understand fact from fiction and heresay from truth.

[ernesto01]

Ziggy you are quite right.
It seems to me too that there are a lot of shit talkers around. I am not living in Thailand but I am frequently there (and not only there- my horizon is a little wider).
I fully agree what you say about Phuket, but offcourse for those who only know and enjoy Pattaya Phuket is not the right place. But they should stay where they are,
let`s keep Phuket clean ! ( and enjoy it !)

[bangkoksins]

Not sure what this has to do with thaivisa.com nor even why it had to be mentioned, as almost every thread on every forum on the internet that is not overly moderated has a certain amount of **** and false / inaccurate stories on it.

At least they get a link out of it for which I am sure they'll be slightly pleased.

That said. I have been here too long to still enjoy Patpong, and have not been for years. One good thing I do like about it are the cigarettes you can buy as there are brands and types of brands available there you cannot buy anywhere else in Thailand apart from a few other places.

[Looker]

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,02:09) This is in direct contradiction to some other posts.

Well..
THAT is your point of view, Ziggy.
With all due respect, why your point of view should be more valid than others'?
What I see, in this and other Forums, it's that a sheer lack of objectivity is triumphing over. I/E the "Cogito ergo sum" seems to be the rule over what a reasoned and objective view should be.
According to what you say, Patpong it's not a rip-off, it's not dangerous and it offers some of the best GGs and LBs you can find in Bangkok.
Well..I've personally met quite a few people being mugged and ripped-off. One dear friend of mine, a few years back, was badly beaten when he went "upstairs" to watch some stupid hardcore show. He got beaten badly by the usual kick-boxers asking more money than what agreed, and the retina at one eye fell off resulting in a few days of hospitalization. I never heard this happening in Nana or Soi Cowboy for example.
Phuket it's another huge rip-off, if you ask me. And no, definitely it is NOT the most sought after Asian destination. Check several website and you will see that doesn't even make in the first 5.
So, again Ziggy, you seem to be a well rounded, experienced and reasonable persons but try adding a bit more of objectivity in your posting as we all should

[azza33]

Well..I've personally met quite a few people being mugged and ripped-off. One dear friend of mine, a few years back, was badly beaten when he went "upstairs" to watch some stupid hardcore show. He got beaten badly by the usual kick-boxers asking more money than what agreed, and the retina at one eye fell off resulting in a few days of hospitalization. I never heard this happening in Nana or Soi Cowboy for example.

I personally know 2 people ripped off by the patpong experience

Phuket it's another huge rip-off, if you ask me. And no, definitely it is NOT the most sought after Asian destination. Check several website and you will see that doesn't even make in the first 5.

So, again Ziggy, you seem to be a well rounded, experienced and reasonable persons but try adding a bit more of objectivity in your posting as we all should

Sorry Looker but your 2nd last statement contradicts your last statement IMHO.

Looking at it objectively, Phuket is one of the most visited spots in Asia (may not make it in someones top5 most beautiful list etc) - the tourist numbers dont lie.

And secondly, its only a rip-off if you are silly enough to pay high prices.
There are plenty of cheap accomodation, food and activities to be had in Phuket.

[Looker]

(azza33 @ Dec. 08 2007,10:18) Sorry Looker but your 2nd last statement contradicts your last statement IMHO.

Looking at it objectively, Phuket is one of the most visited spots in Asia (may not make it in someones top5 most beautiful list etc) - the tourist numbers dont lie.

And secondly, its only a rip-off if you are silly enough to pay high prices.
There are plenty of cheap accomodation, food and activities to be had in Phuket.

No, azza, why?
Sorry..PatPong and Phuket are quite two different things, if you allow me to say that.
I certainly agree than Phuket may have plenty of "cheap" spots..all place do have cheap spots anyway.
I've been there, looked around, made diving, been to beaches, being to night-life spots, had several lunches and dinners at places of various $$$ level and simply made an, I hope, objective comparison with other places I've visited in the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand itself.
Hence I've come up with my opinion, that Phuket it's not worthy what you pay for.
Perhaps Rip-off maybe a bit of an heavy word but for sure it's not far from reality when you put everything on the table and do comparisons with other similar destinations.
The fact that many people go there doesn't necessarily mean it's the best place. Most people are first time tourist and they have bought package tours by seeing a few pictures on a glossy brochure.
People keep coming to Hong Kong..WTF!!! The third most expensive country in the world, populated by rude and blunt people, and with a fucking nothing to offer and see, except for shopping/eating/shopping/eating/shopping/eating..yet people come over like no tomorrow..go figure

[Guest]

I think I agree with the criticisms and my post was perhaps too one-sided.

Rather than say 'most of what you read is not true', a perhaps better way of stating is that some experiences stated here are a combination of gross exaggeration and created by the individual, and so you have to take some with a very large grain of salt. And surely, my experiences won't be everyone's, and mine are not the only 'true' ones; there are many 'true' ones. I think you have to guage the poster's type of perspective.

But I think the Patpong example is a good one. If you walk down that street with anger on your face, threatening toots with violence, walk into a LB bar and get angry at the first girl who comes up trying to make her living, what experience do you expect to have that evening? If you take the same location, walk down the street relaxed, just moving on calmly, and smile at a beautiful LB who asks to sit with you and say no thanks, what experience will you have?

What is completely ridiculous on this forum are people posting learned views on places they've never been, or on people they've never met, and experiences they've never had. Such is the nature of the net I suppose.

As for Mardhi and Azza's experiences; well, name any place on the planet, and we can find examples of bad experiences, including Nana, Cowboy, and Guess Bar, and in all three, I've had bad experiences too. But there is little doubt KC3 has toned down a lot. The mamasan has put on strict rules for bills, and for girls jumping on your lap. That is very evident.

So, criticisms acknowledged, and accepted.

[doug]

(azza33 @ Dec. 08 2007,10:18) Looking at it objectively, Phuket is one of the most visited spots in Asia (may not make it in someones top5 most beautiful list etc) - the tourist numbers dont lie.

Which would make it even less appealing in my opinion.  Ziggy might wish to follow the crowds, but I have no desire to be just another tourist to be fleeced by the locals.  There are a dozen "off-the-beaten-track" island locations that are far superior to Phuket in terms of customer service, physical beauty, and leisure activities.

Phuket may have some good ladyboy bars, but then so does Bangkok and Pattaya, so apples and oranges, I say.  But to claim that Phuket's LB bars are superior to those found elsewhere is laughable.  Might as well start a discussion here about whether blondes are superior to brunettes.  To each his own, right?

Personally, if I'm going to a tropical paradise, I'm not going to plop my fat ass down in a BAR the whole time.  I can do that here just fine, thank you.  So Phuket's nightlife wouldn't appeal to me unless (heaven forbid) I actually lived there.  

Otherwise it's just "Nana South" and since many of the stunners float between Bangkok and Phuket on a regular basis, I see no reason to go all the way down there to chase after them when I can just wait for them to come to me.

But to say that Phuket offers a superior collection of ladyboys is silly, since many of them rotate up to Bangkok regularly.  I know one particularly well-endowed Soi Crocodile honey who would come up to Bangkok every few months to go shopping/drinking with her friends.  When she was in town, she'd booty-call me and we'd have some fun.  When she wasn't, I didn't miss her because there's plenty of decent action to be had right here.

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,09:56) Over the years, there have been unbelievable posts regarding Ladyboys or bars, by people who have never been here, Phuket, by people who never been there, or even just Patpong, by people who maybe have been there.

As a sample, I visited Patpong tonite. All the toots did what is there job, which is to invite me in to their establishment. In all cases, I just nodded my head no, and not once did someone follow me or ask me again. In fact, they were admirably polite, no more nor less so than the toots at Nana and Cowboy.

Is this a shot across my bow?  I think it's pretty obvious from my post that I'd been to Patpong before, and I'm not sure why you'd think I'd make up stories just to slam the place.

It's not like I have a personal vendetta against a neighborhood, I was just relating a personal experience, and guess what, it was a NEGATIVE experience!

Please point out what was so "unbelievable" about my Patpong post?  I'd be curious to know what you find to be so incredulous.  Do you honestly think it's impossible for someone to have a negative experience in Patpong?

In fact, I'm wondering if you've ever been in Nana, since everyone knows that don't have touts in Nana (at least not on the scale that Patpong has).  There's no barricade of tuk-tuks in front of the Plaza entrance, and there's no DVD-selling touts posted every 15 feet inside the plaza either.

If you were merely nodding your head to brush them off, then you must have looked like a chicken plucking at seeds, because you'd have to nod your head up and down the entire length of Soi Patpong.  Perhaps you made a bee-line to your destination and hence were only briefly inconvienced, but as I said in my post, I made the "mistake" of taking a walk around the Soi for a bit.

I can walk around Nana Plaza, and as long as I avoid the front doors of Temptations and Cascades, nobody will try to grab my arm and pull me into their bar.  But in Patpong, it's impossible to walk anywhere without a near constant sales pressure.  It's like infommercial hell in there.  There are times I felt like I needed a "pop-up blocker" installed just to navigate down the soi.

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,09:56)
Likewise I spent about 2 hours in KC3, and watched, as always, a collection of average, and far above average Ladbyoys. In fact, KC3 is improving, as there are no longer 'true' girls, and the mamasan has definitely toned down the aggressivenes, to the point it is lame compared to Nana or even Guess Bar. With signing the bill for every drink, it has turned itself around almost too far.

This is in direct contradiction to some other posts.

You'll note that in my post I said essentially the exact same thing.  So if you are indeed criticizing my Patpong post, I fail to see your point here, since we both agree that KC3 has improved it's attitude.

Last time I was there, a ladyboy stood behind me and repeatedly thumped me on the back of my head because I wouldn't buy her a ladydrink.   This time around, I had a perfectly lovely girl sit with me and chat the entire time and she never pressed for the ladydrink (after the first inquiry).

So I said, KC3 has improved, but I still don't see any reason to suffer harrassment in order to check out the listless and bored average-looking girls they have there.

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,09:56) So while thaivisa.com is somewhat of a farce at times for accuracy, this forum is often the same. My advice for  readers is to watch people who post who actually live here, visit bars, visit Phuket, and have a history of giving a less biased view of some situations.

You may choose my reality to not be yours and that is your perogative I suppose; but my main point is...don't believe most of what you read!

I read thaivisa on a regular basis, and I agree with you that the general discussion threads are often prone to flights of fancy and barstool bullshit, there are also some very good thread on such mundane affairs as health benefits and car insurance.

So generally, I ignore the bullshit threads and just read thaivisa for the daily news and day-to-day survival and entertainment tips.

"...don't believe most of what you read!" applies to your post as well.  We can get into a big fight and call each other liars all day to no avail.  As I pointed out to the idiot who wanted to post photos of SamplerDoc to "prove" he was stalking Pond, there are about a dozens ways someone could "spoof" those photos and then we'd be stuck trying to "prove" the "proof".

In other words, debating about what is "fiction" or hyperbole or lies on the internet is a moot and fruitless venture.  Almost NOTHING can be "proven", and even if you did, so what?  In most cases, even if you prove something (such as by resorting to nefarious means like the one suggested by the photo-taking SamplerDoc stalker-wannabe), all you'd really prove is that you're an incredible prick.

This forum will be a far better and happier place if we all stop worrying about the cold, hard facts and just enjoy the "fantasy". I'm curious why you chose to name this thread "Truth or Dare". Are you a detective trying to "get to the bottom of something"? Are you a self-appointed "guardian of the facts"? Are you angry about some percieved slight and seeking retribution by "proving" falsehoods have been uttered by your tormentor?

What does it matter if you think my posts are "fiction"?  Why do they upset you so much?  Have I injured you in some way?  Have I insulted your pride in some way?

If that's the case, then I apologize.  I had not realized that egos were so tender here.

I post strictly for my own enjoyment, and it's not my intention to make you feel like less of a man simply because I get more free ladyboy action in a month than most guys can afford to pay for in a year.

Call me a controlling, misogynistic prick.  Call me a liar.  Call me a snob if you must.

But don't call me a talentless hack , because I'd take the personally .  If you don't like hearing of my adventures, true or not, then don't read my posts.  

But I'm merely trying to entertain MYSELF, not provide factual information to punters and tourists.  I'm not writing a GUIDEBOOK here.

So if you're going to slam my "review" of Patpong as being "unbelieveable" and "not factual", well, I think you're missing the point.

I wrote a rant, not a "review".  There is a difference, you know.

[Guest]

Doug, you're absolutely right. No more 'across the bow' shots. Your criticisms are valid.

[Looker]

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,12:36) What is completely ridiculous on this forum are people posting learned views on places they've never been, or on people they've never met, and experiences they've never had. Such is the nature of the net I suppose.

That is ABSOLUTELY true and falls under the lack of objectivity critic I was referring to

[Fred_Nguyen]

(ziggystardust @ Dec. 08 2007,12:57) Doug, you're absolutely right. No more 'across the bow' shots. Your criticisms are valid.

I think in fact you may be the gayest man on the face of the earth.