Cleaning Up Thailand...maybe not so fast ...as usual .

[flamingofarmer]

Interesting article in the Pattaya news from last October 2018.......

for me.. Just going to Thailand over the last few years I can see some changes.... like I missed some of the heydaze.... kind of coming in at the end of the party maybe. I know a lot of lawmakers and officials are making noise in Thailand to rid the country of its "sex trade" status, however it seems that there's bigger problems if they managed to accomplish their goals (the article explains) ; mainly, what will become of the hundreds of thousands of Thai people, mostly sex workers, who rely on the industry to support themselves and their families?

https://pattayatoday.net/sex-workers-face/

[flamingofarmer]

The happy zone aka walking street is a pilot project in effort to give rise to stamping out prostitution they say. But again I'm wondering what they're going to replace that tours dollar with....
it's almost the same as asking Afghanistan to get out of the poppy industry.... then what....

https://pattayatoday.net/sex-tourism-pattaya-frustrates/

[Rockheart]

Not to worry since they don't seem to view bars as being the same as street prostitution.
You did miss walking street when it was unrestricted prostitution but that mostly ended around 2010.
It just seems they are trying to push the adult night life away from the beach and walking street, it's not like they are closing lady or ladyboy bars at all.

Of course if they wanted to stop it they could just close Nana Plaza etc. But that will never happen.
They clean up the visible street prostitution, take a bunch of pictures for the media and carry on as usual.
It is the street workers that tend to cause the most problems robbery and such, which is bad for tourists.
So they are looking good when doing little.

Thailand also mistakenly thinks they can somehow attract better tourist such as the Families that go to Disneyland and French Riviera types.
Those people might go to Thailand sometime but not all the time.
Thailand is popular as an affordable vacation and their ability to make people feel like a king.
For centuries Thailand has been the place to go and get taken care of and treated like royalty.

without the organized sex industry Thailand might be much more like Philippines.
Where else do hotels check your date's identification?

At one time some monk took a bulldozer to a large portion of Patpong adult area and it is still going strong.
No matter what country it is, tourist will be looking for sex.
People look down on sex tourists but many times busy people don't have time for relationships at home.
Then when they have a few weeks off for vacation they also have time to get laid.

Thaifriendly is probably the number one sex worker hub in Thailand these days.

[P&G]

Great finds Flamingofarmer.
This reminds me of what happened in Europe 50 or 60 years earlier. American armies found whorehouses that had been used by German soldiers and reorganized for them since they often existed before. Little by little, American soldiers were restricted to their military areas or banned when a country decided to quit the NATO. Another wave of prostitution came in the late 1960s with the the sexual revolution. "Everything was permitted" so why not make money with love and sex ? But little by little, moral order came back.

At first they banned and prohibited whorehouses. It took about 25 years to have the last ones closed (the last ones were bars hiding the business but wouldn't last long. They still exist now but their life expectancy is too short). It took also 25 years to have the prohibition of procurement complete. Procurers are still operating but they belong to the world of criminal mafias. In some countries, they even legalized sex clubs to struggle against these mafias. In other countries they went deeper into prohibition.
It went faster in Eastern Europe, but their prohibition pushed many girls to the streets and brothels in Western Europe.

I don't go to Pattaya very often, so I can see or even feel a change every time I go there. They managed to reduce visible prostitution, no matter the business is done in bars or through Thaifriendly. I don't really know about bars (and discos and gogos) since I don't like these places, but it seems that their business is going down too although repression is probably slowed down by corruption (police officers won't like to kill the golden goose that feeds the city with money including their offices). If the Thai government wanted more police efficiency, they would pay police officers a higher wage and wouldn't accept them to get pay-offs.

It seems that Thailand reached higher life standards that also means exploiting uneducated country girls openly. Ladyboys can access jobs if they get a good education and can spend less time in bars to finance their transition. I have the feeling that the business is insidiously reoriented on classical tourist business with new clienteles such as Russian, Chinese or Indian tourists. That doesn't bother me since I don't really go to Pattaya. I prefer an amateur ladyboy met round the corner in Issan than a street prostitute or a bar dancer in Pattaya. They have bigger heart, are as kinky in the room and less greedy for money.

[outlander5]

A labyboy friend I stay in touch with got popped walking alone down a quiet soi by the police last week and they extorted 5000 from her, her first time ever in 4 years in pattaya.
I thought the crackdown on beach road might be moving away from the beach then I read the post I'm thinking oh boy!!!
But i'm pretty sure it was wrong place wrong time, having a major blitz on prostitution wouldn't go well but in small batches the police can control it like the mafia where its more lucrative !!
I agree with you Crag the bars & thaifriendly are better and mostly safer places then working the streets, I'm not really buying the exploitation of simple farm girls ideology don't believe its that cut and dry it comes down to preferred lifestyle decisions they make. talking with thais I've never got the impression of vulnerability more a savoy instinct for survival for themselves and their families back in the country which most want to go back too when they are older and need settledown!!

[flamingofarmer]

It doesn't matter if your rich or poor...its nice to have muny.

That's what IT is all about. And IT is such a huge part of the fluid that "lubes" the thai finacial machinery, the end to IT all would cause a massive dry-fuck of the economy; it would be a firesale from the loss of cop payoffs and on up the chain.
Think about all the millions of tourists, as the article points out, who travel and spend millions each year on hotels and travel etc to meet the willing and legal aged working "girl" ; that cannot go away for the sake of the country at this point. And the LOS will, as crag points out, never be Disneyland.
Cleaning up the street prosties and the prostie/thug/criminals is necessary (safety plus tourist muny) but is a symptom of ignorance of the legal system ( bribes/payoff muny) caused by neglect of the thai handlers (poor wages to police, more bribe muny, tourist muny) ...so the outer jaged and not so desirable edges of the thai experience ( sex trade in general) are not distracting from all the muny coming in.

Maybe a solution to consider (to make muny without so much corruption) is embracing the idea of turning LOS into place of controlled legal prostitution like they do in Amsterdam as an example. But I honestly don't think there's the wherewithal for the completion of any "new marvelous plan" other than the bellowing of "let's clean it up" by somebody trying to win votes perhaps or to show the world there a (never ending) cleanup going on.

[P&G]

I think you underestimate the influence of new tourists. Chinese people come from airports hotels with a chartered bus. Trips are already purchased (the price for a day trip is about the same as the price of a ST and every one gets the day trip together). Thai people just need to call the Chinese group and the van is full. It might be as easy and profitable money as the sex industry.
I also believe that Thailand has a Disneyland potential. Don't watch Pattaya. If you start traveling to the south, you can see that National parks islands are saturated with people. It will take tie, but they can do it : reorganize the business into something looking moral for the world. Thaifriendly and other websites/apps will do the job and it will be acceptable as long as it's not really visible.

[flamingofarmer]

I good a pretty good glimpse of what the Chinese are digging in Pattaya, and it wasn't all disneyland they way must westerners would perceive it.
I attended (invited by woody as she's in it) the Big Eye show and managed to drag Crag along. Pretty sure he and I were the only to Caucasians in the place. They shuffled a few hundred in and out of that kinky weirdo sex / dong swinging/drum beating faux-sex show every 45 minutes, and it made zero sense to either of us other than it gives them ( Chinese viewer ) "Big Eyes"; I guess its kinda shocking and they line up around the building to get ing.... by the bus load , its crazy, at 1500B a head. I think they are allegedly ok with what goes on in Pattaya, and I suspect thats why they book the tours to this party town.

[Rockheart]

It doesn't matter if your rich or poor...its nice to have muny.

That's what IT is all about. And IT is such a huge part of the fluid that "lubes" the thai finacial machinery, the end to IT all would cause a massive dry-fuck of the economy; it would be a firesale from the loss of cop payoffs and on up the chain.
Think about all the millions of tourists, as the article points out, who travel and spend millions each year on hotels and travel etc to meet the willing and legal aged working "girl" ; that cannot go away for the sake of the country at this point. And the LOS will, as crag points out, never be Disneyland.
Cleaning up the street prosties and the prostie/thug/criminals is necessary (safety plus tourist muny) but is a symptom of ignorance of the legal system ( bribes/payoff muny) caused by neglect of the thai handlers (poor wages to police, more bribe muny, tourist muny) ...so the outer jaged and not so desirable edges of the thai experience ( sex trade in general) are not distracting from all the muny coming in.

Maybe a solution to consider (to make muny without so much corruption) is embracing the idea of turning LOS into place of controlled legal prostitution like they do in Amsterdam as an example. But I honestly don't think there's the wherewithal for the completion of any "new marvelous plan" other than the bellowing of "let's clean it up" by somebody trying to win votes perhaps or to show the world there a (never ending) cleanup going on.

Well Thailand already is the magical kingdom so Disneyland may conflict with it's values.
However i think someday Thailand could get an authentic Disneyland, it won't be the international destination some of the others are.
Plus i speak of the "Disneyland Families" who tend to go to the North American Disneys.

While the move towards democracy and free markets has been good for Thailand, they have probably become too western.
Bangkok has always been the place to go to to fulfill all your needs, for centuries in fact.
The food and drink are world class and the customer service is good even in the cheap places.
Cleaning it up basically means becoming more western taking on more Conservative values where sex for pleasure or money is discouraged.
Greater health standards mean killing street food and most street action, which also usually means more money for officials in licenses and fines.

Some radical feminists will probably discover Nana Plaza some day and turn the world against it, instead of just appreciating it for what it is.
Fortunately there are too many other shiny issues keeping the PC mobs attention but i'm sure soon their attention will zone in on Thai bar girls being exploited.

[Rockheart]

I good a pretty good glimpse of what the Chinese are digging in Pattaya, and it wasn't all disneyland they way must westerners would perceive it.
I attended (invited by woody as she's in it) the Big Eye show and managed to drag Crag along. Pretty sure he and I were the only to Caucasians in the place. They shuffled a few hundred in and out of that kinky weirdo sex / dong swinging/drum beating faux-sex show every 45 minutes, and it made zero sense to either of us other than it gives them ( Chinese viewer ) "Big Eyes"; I guess its kinda shocking and they line up around the building to get ing.... by the bus load , its crazy, at 1500B a head. I think they are allegedly ok with what goes on in Pattaya, and I suspect thats why they book the tours to this party town.

The stuff that entertains Asians is a mystery.
WHY????

[flamingofarmer]

I dont get it . If my countrymen and ladies were travelling, I would certainly regale them of the entertainment I discovered and that alone should prevent more of the Chinese from coming to that show, you would think... however, I think they really freaking like it in FOMO on something so shocking . I can just hear the response when tell us another about the goings-on of that big guy show. The response is probably a just a "big nooooooo...I cannot believe"

[billyworld]

I never go to Patts but I spend 4-5 months each year in BKK...I think these "Clean-ups" come in cycles...for instance: Thai Craigslist at the moment is purging all posts even
SUGGESTING sex...the "beauty services" section had over 200 posts 8 weeks ago...this morning it had 7 (NOT a typo!)...I'm not sure if CL is responsible or some govt agency is doing it...but it IS happening!
They tried a similar clean-up in Vegas 25 years ago...wanted to become a "family" destination they said...the idea failed epically and now Vegas is back to Sin City USA.
Here in Thailand there is "talk" of "elections" sometime this year or early 2020...maybe somebody in power believes a clean-up will garner some votes for them???
Personally,I don't see too much of a change on the streets...NEP is full of people every night (but the girls say the # of bar fining has dropped off considerably.)...Soi 4 Sukhumvit is still busy with freelancers...so is Sukhumvit Rd between Nana & Soi Cowboy...there is an occasional cop cruising Soi 4 but usually they ask a few questions and drive away...Thai Friendly is going well and is a reliable place to find sex...A few girls have told me that even as paying premium members...they keep getting blocked so we will have to keep an eye on THAT in the future...OK...that's MY 2 cents

[outlander5]

Election could be as soon as March 24th could be part of the reason.