The Direction of Videos on ATS

[pistolero]

The recent 3 page thread on the "Honey and friend" video got me thinking about the issue of the video content/style on ATS (and many similar sites, for that matter).

As for the Honey video itself, this is a democracy guys and gals, so one post of dissent does have its place.

Frankly, I found the Honey video to be bordering on unwatchable. Sure, the kinkiness was good to see on ATS, but I did not find either model to be the slightest bit attractive. While I do agree that good old fashioned kinkiness can often trump looks, for me that did not happen on this video. The incessant moaning and over acting was particularly obnoxious. Then, with the volume down we are left looking at two very average LBs doing acts (bback, bj after anal) that are already pretty standard in many adult video corners. What is the big deal, I find myself pondering?

So, this somewhat long winded introduction brings me to the real point of this thread, which is the direction (or current style) of vids here at ATS and other sites which stick to the format of several solo and a few very vanilla, semi hardcore interactive vids per month.

I really think that part of the excitement here about the Honey video might arise from the fact that most of the videos on ATS over the years have been very much on the tame, vanilla side. Then, when even some degree of degree of €œbasic kink€ comes along people go wild! Things like bback and sucking a cock fresh from the a-hole are standard fare on many straight (and probably non straight) videos already. So, what is the big deal here? Is it simply the energy and enthusiasm of the models (Honey and friend) in the video that has people so turned on, or is there a bigger issue at work here? I suggest the latter.

From the reaction here my sense is that many members do, in fact, wish that the video side of ATS would move much more into the realm of hard core. Okay, it is a given that many models will stay solo and not go interactive, yet alone go kinky. However, for the 1-1 shots (or 2-1? €“ are there any?) I think the envelope can be pushed much, much more. I am not suggesting the demeaning nature of some of the stuff on the ape man€™s site, but perhaps going a bit more in the hard core direction? If such fare were offered on a monthly basis, then perhaps members would not be devoting 3 pages to a thread on 2 average models getting a bit wild?

Just wondering out loud. What do you think, guys and gals?

The great think about ATS is that the boys behind the scenes do listen.

P

[Looker]

(pistolero @ Jan. 16 2007,04:26) If you read the entire thread (or even the heading), this was about the DIRECTION of videos on ATS, and not per se about the Honey video.

I guess it's not easy to meet everybody's taste.
One thing I feel sure about, it's that making porn/sexy movies in Asia except for Japan, and even there with all my reservations, it's not easy at all.
Simply the talents are not skillful as those in the western world, and the available means are far from those found in USA and Europe. The final quality will ALWAYS be mediocre at the best.
No offence to all cinematographers and photographers working for ATS and similar sites. My hat's off and you're doing already too well given what you can get!
Simply, the tradition of making porn movies it's not an Asian thing, even if wonderful GGs and LBs are here.

[pistolero]

(Looker @ Jan. 16 2007,10:27) Simply the talents are not skillful as those in the western world, and the available means are far from those found in USA and Europe. The final quality will ALWAYS be mediocre at the best.

Hmmm, interesting take on things.  

I was trying to say that maybe it was the customers who might want more.  

But you bring up the adult biz cinematography, which is interesting. Do you think we need the directors/camerpeople to rev things up more with the models? Might be an idea?

Would have to ask monkeyman and other video guys about this. Don't really know if they see their role as just shooting a scene or creating a mood?

Here in Thailand, it could partly be that the actresses just won't "go kinky," and to some degree this may be true.  

Anyhow, thanks for adding your thoughts, and not just inserting the "move" icon!  

[Looker]

(pistolero @ Jan. 16 2007,13:47)

(Looker @ Jan. 16 2007,10:27) Simply the talents are not skillful as those in the western world, and the available means are far from those found in USA and Europe. The final quality will ALWAYS be mediocre at the best.

Hmmm, interesting take on things.  

I was trying to say that maybe it was the customers who might want more.  

But you bring up the adult biz cinematography, which is interesting.  Do you think we need the directors/camerpeople to rev things up more with the models?  Might be an idea?  

Would have to ask monkeyman and other video guys about this.  Don't really know if they see their role as just shooting a scene or creating a mood?

Here in Thailand, it could partly be that the actresses just won't "go kinky," and to some degree this may be true.  

Anyhow, thanks for adding your thoughts, and not just inserting the "move" icon!  

Your welcome.
What I wanted to say as well..not sure if I succeeded or not in doing so..it's that good movies are also made with good $$$
Locations are important too! And then again it takes $$$
Renting a 3 start hotel in Pattaya comes cetainly cheaper then renting a villa on the French riviera or Malibu, but it gives another effects too.
Women and guys acting in USA and European made adult movies are somehow professional actors, at least in that sector. Here we are dealing with GGs and LBs who do that twice a year, if that.
Japan made adult movies employ professional castings but still many times fall short of being interesting and appealing to the westen audience. Scenes lasting 20 minutes of some old Japanese guy with a pot belly who's pathetically poking some girl ass with gyno style camera close-ups doesn't stimulate most westerners..I guess.

[stogie bear]

Very difficult subject to answer.All of us who run the show here are aware that it is video that is the key to our success in the future.

The days of 'dial up' are long gone and people demand a lot more for their buck...

We do release ten sets of clips each mionth and this gets quite expensive. We always try our hardest (!) to get a cum-load out of the models also. This isn't always achievable, though.

Thailand being Thailand it's often hard to get really enthusiastic hard core models on videos and it's very hard to get male models to act with them too.

Also - as a busy site we often throw stuff out there to see what works. We have a lot of members and they have a lot of different demands. So feed back (like this thread) is vital to us as we search for what sells.

I personally prefer 'vanilla' and the softcore cute girls over the hardened slag sticking dildos up their asses. But that's me and I know that what I like doesn't sell!

I'm interested in what other people have to say and with that in mind all off topic posts on this thread will be deleted (including some already here!)

Cheers (and thanks Pistolero for a smart yet provocative thread...)  

[Guest]

[quote]
(Looker @ Jan. 16 2007,10:27)

...
Simply the talents are not skillful as those in the western world, and the available means are far from those found in USA and Europe. The final quality will ALWAYS be mediocre at the best.
No offence to all cinematographers and photographers working for ATS and similar sites. My hat's off and you're doing already too well given what you can get!
Simply, the tradition of making porn movies it's not an Asian thing, even if wonderful GGs and LBs are here.

In USA and Europe you have a much bigger pool of models to choose from, and being a porn actress is often considered a "full" job.
Prior to shooting there will be more clear direction and a planned sequence of positions.

In my Asian experience, have met a few girls that "acted" for the first time, and what's worse: never actually saw porn movies before. With those circumstances, the chance of making a great scene are strongly reduced.

My advice for the movie makers: take tons of time to explain what you are looking for.
Show a few movies to the models, so they can see examples of what's good/requested and what isn't.

[D33]

I am only addressing the hardcore issue, because soft-core (jack off & solo) does not have all of the same obstacles.

1) Anyone who thinks they can do better, I urge them to please do so. Shooting American / Euro standards of porn in Thailand is very, very difficult to do. There is a reason you don't see a lot of "hot" content coming out of Thailand. There is also a reason many LA porn companies have sent crews to Thailand and came home without shit to show for it.

I personally have shot in several places around the world and even brought male porn stars from the USA and Brazil to Thailand and still only got sub-par content. From time to time you hit a homerun, but you hit more fouls than you do out of the park. The difference is, the men know how to position them and know how to work with the lights to make the cameraman's job easier. Shooting Thais is hard fucking work.

Easy to say "spend the money" "do this" or "do that" but trust me when I say (with close to 400 female hardcore scenes and about 100 LB hardcore scenes under my belt) that unless you are there shooting it, you can't possibly fathom how hard anyone from this site or others work to get just what you see.

2) Locations. Yes, a beautiful location is best, but again, not easy to do in Thailand. You have to find a location that is A) Ladyboy friendly and traffic. B) Has thick enough walls so everyone won't hear what you're doing. C) Is big enough to work in, set up lights or whatever you need. D) Is actually nice and does not look like a hotel room. E) Has the power to run your lights and not trip the breaker when you turn them on.

Sure, a private house is great, but Thai people are always in your business no matter what you do. Finding a location is harder than you would think in Thailand.

But how hard can it be?

lol

3) Thai people do not want to be porn stars. Many of the do not watch Euro / American porno, or porno at all. They don't know the right positions for a video, which are not the same positions they would do off cam. They don't know the proper amount to moan, or not. In general they don't know how to act, how to be sexy, how to lift their body at a certain angle so the cameramen can move in and get the right shot. They don't understand that their arm or hair is blocking the shot during the BJ. They don't understand not to turn their back on you and block all the action. And you can tell them until you are blue in the face, but less than 5% will listen to a word you say. And out of those 5% who listen, forget as soon as they get into it. As Candyman said, the best you can do is let them watch a porno and HOPE they will retain that information and use it when you film them. Chances are they won't.

To put simple, Thai people do not understand the difference between a video shoot and off camera sex. Its all the same to them, and their performance shows this over and over and over again. Of course sometimes you get lucky with one or 10 of them, but you have hit more stray balls than those that went out of the park.

4) Language. This is a big one and takes an already difficult job and adds 90% more difficulty to it. Even if you speak Thai it can be difficult.

5) Practice makes perfect. The stars you all watch giving incredible performances who work every day in LA, work every day. They do this over and over and get it down. They know the lingo, the moves, all of it. It's their job and they do it well, every day. The girls and LBs in Thailand will maybe do this once or twice in their entire life. There is no repetition, nothing to review and make your performance better, and to be blunt, they really don't care. They want a quick buck and want to get back out to the bars to get another short time.

The truth is, even though for some of us this is a job, to them it's just another short time. They can take it or leave it and do not care about your need to make this hot. Quick in, quick out. You all know how they think, and it's a one track mind... money, money, money, money. They want to get yours and move onto the next Falang. That's what whores do.

6) Then lets add the fact that it's illegal. You know it, they know it, the hotel knows it. You walk on a thin sheet of ice already just by shooting the most amateur of porn in Thailand. Now drag your lights, a crew, camera bags, and everything else into a hotel room and hope nobody catches on. This is always in the back of your mind while you are shooting.

There are many more problems I'm sure but its 3:24am and my mind is shutting down.

Long story short, it's fucking hard to shoot GOOD movies in Thailand.

That's my POV.

[D33]

Ooops, forgot to add.

All things considered, I thought the video of H&H was fine.

[Guest]

(D33 @ Jan. 16 2007,17:29) Ooops, forgot to add.

All things considered, I thought the video of H&H was fine.  

different for sure new certantly worth watching i suspect if you have a download counter it would be interesting to see just how many of us download.

[koykaeng]

Despite the image of Thailand as a venue for sex tourism and a haven for promiscuity, I believe that this notion is actually at odds with Thai culture and behaviour in the broader sense.

Similarly, it is not intrinsic for the Thais to exhibit the same sort of sexuality that we often associate with the "girls" from the South American countries such as Brazil.

Based on our own exposure to the bars of Bangkok & Pattaya, I think we end up with a distorted perspective of sexuality in Thailand.

Sure there is a thriving "entertainment sector" in Thailand serving all the Asian Businessman, but it seems to function in a very discreet and low key manner.

Cheers
Koykaeng

[Guest]

No base culture is really like this sure you get some who natural candidates culture tolerates rather then reflects those values.

The more American dependant countries such as Philippines you are more likely to find the people who are more willing to give themselves that is Asian side of life. Russians these days€™ African countries also more likely candidates due to desperation rather then culture. Philippines have been through this period and so Saigon in Vietnam where Americans turned into sin cities and this sort of culture flourished. But this culture has a tendency to decline just ask the Romans.




Had business dinner three bottles of wine later
opps

[Looker]

(D33 @ Jan. 16 2007,16:28) 5) Practice makes perfect.  The stars you all watch giving incredible performances who work every day in LA, work every day. They do this over and over and get it down. They know the lingo, the moves, all of it. It's their job and they do it well, every day.  The girls and LBs in Thailand will maybe do this once or twice in their entire life. There is no repetition, nothing to review and make your performance better, and to be blunt, they really don't care. They want a quick buck and want to get back out to the bars to get another short time.

Absolutely!
I've been acting a bit in theater, which is by far more difficult than cinema because you CANNOT screw up when you are on the scene. It takes about 3 months of rehearsals for each play. It takes hours and hours of studying lines and getting into the part. It's an hard job.
With a group I was acting, we even had once a learning/training stage with one of the coaches used by Robert DeNiro.
IT'S HARD JOB ACTING!
Again..you are already doing too well considering you take a Gg or LB that 5 minutes ago was lazying around in abar and put them to act!
I do not imply we should put up an acting school for amateur porn actors LBs and GGs in Thailand, but if only could spend more time in rehearsing would make a big change.

[Guest]

I enjoy the innocent sounds of a ladyboy cumming and the innocent sounds and actions made while they are being fucked or while they are fucking someone else. I do not like the fake acting sounds. On the ATS videos of the single girls, I watch the last clip that shows their climax. If they make authentic innocent sounds as they cum, then I will watch the entire clips of that girl. If they make fake sounds or no sounds, then I will not watch the rest of the clips from that girl. (I hope that makes some sense) One of the best ATS videos that I have viewed was of Annie from Obsessions. The sounds that she made, along with the facial expression as she came were great. Another one that I like is Eye. Her moans as she is being fucked appear to be authentic and she sounds so sweet as she moans. I especially enjoyed her in Little Asian Shemales. One that is so fake (on that same DVD) is Jeow Jeow. Her sounds are very fake and were a big turnoff.

[Mai-Kee]

Great thread and a very understandable reply by D33. I absolutely believe that it's 100% like you said! I personally - that's why I came up with the Honey&Heaven thread - would love moving towards more hc stuff, which's surely not easy with Thais. We all know the "I shy" from a girl who's covering her body with a towel, coming out of the shower, but who has seen and done probably everything. There is a certain unexplainable shyness and a total lack of understanding for camera acting!
So, what about opening an actors class for future porn stars? Once they understand the job perspectives it should be quite popular! (I'm voting for Honey Bee as the directrice)

MK

[pistolero]

Thanks, D33, Looker, Stogie, Koykaeng, Candy, Flassiter, Mai-kee, and David , for your insightful take on the topic.  

Though the sample size on this thread is small, I guess this gives Stogie and the team an additional glimpse into some of the broader tastes on ATS.  

As someone who subscribes to the site much more for the videos than for the photos, I was simply curious to see how members may feel about their content.  

I really could not figure out why so many people got excited about a certain video that I perceived to be very average in terms of model looks.

So, I set forth one possible explanation for this, which is that the site needed more edgy, hardcore leaning videos as evidenced by a bit more kink or a bit more model passion.

To paraphrase some of your responses, it seems like there is a fundamental disconnect between the cultural, financial, and legal realities of shooting vids in LOS with the "viewing desires" (raw, edgier, uninhibited hard core with hot actresses) of some of your subscribers.

D33 and others present some very strong evidence, and I do get what you guys are saying as far as the cultural issues go. Makes sense.

But I guess I will leave with one final question set for the future?  

Given all the constraints mentioned, how can ATS replicate the excitement that people felt about the Honey video in the future (and maybe with some of the stunners we so often see in the pics) on a somewhat regular basis?? Is it possible?

D33's harcdore pics in the photo section suggest maybe so???

To achieve this, might ATS consider more boyfriend/girlfriend (real life) vids or does this get squirrelly with the law?  Might you drop that passionless Thai guy who is in so many of the vids?  Or is he used b/c he can be trusted?  Might the camera people work a bit more on creating a mood, or is this just a waste of time as models rush to a shoot after work and culturally don't want to leave the protective towel?  

Maybe I am getting too pedantic, but input never hurts.

Lastly, I am a big supporter of all of you who do the great work here at ATS so please do not take these suggestions in the wrong way.

Cheers,

Pistolero