Thai Airway LBs

[Looker]

Life is unfair in general to anyone on this planet, unless you do not have the right conncetion and so on...
This applies in the western world which is "supposed" to be without prejudices, and equal and fair to everybody.
Being a LB, anywhere in the world, it makes your odds weighing a few tons more.
One of LB friends in BKK finally got a good job again after months of tribulation. Needless to say she is super qualified in the IT sector.
Would have joined the interviews with short hairs and without the (fakes) Gucci bag and shoes she could have got the job sooner.
More than one companies sopecifically asked her if she would have felt gcomfortable" to work with other people and made her quite a lot of questions about her character, attitude, and so on.
So, it's true that knowledge and professionality stretch your possibilities but for a LB the fatigue in getting there will be higher.
We all know cases of LBs living double lives when working in offices. Another friend of mine, who works in Standard Charterd in Sathorn, dresses like a guy by day. She was clearly confronted on the issue and given no choices to come in work in "decent" attire or give away the job, which is very good one considering job possibilities in Thailand!
But then again, I would expect this almost anywhere on heart...

[Guest]

We shouldn't get the impression here that there is NO prejudice against LB's in Thailand, just because an uncountable one-tenth-of-a-percent have a regular job. You don't know the social background of those girls - also upper class families have LB daughters - nor if they might have won an important beauty contest with press/ TV coverage - which means a lot in Thailand, etc.

I also dare saying that being a flight attendend is for sure a fun job, but you don't do an MBA, , MA or PhD to become a flight attendend or do some office work. I know quite a few really bright tgirls in Thailand with MBA's from Chula, Thammassat and one even from abroad and none of them have an adequate profession. Most of them work - luckily - in their parents companies because they just didn't get anything at Siemens, Procter, BCG or Shin Corp, like their fellow students.

Just being bright and/or diligent doesn't mean anything!!!

Those girls would probably be already directors or vice-presidents in those companies if they would have stayed with the gender they were accidentily born with.

Equality means that an average talented, bright TS would have the same chances as a gg or guy of the same level and status - and that's so not true!!!
Not in Thailand nor anywhere else on this planet!

Well said, Mai-kee

As far as Thai Airways goes - they have an unwritten zero tolerance policy for ladyboys in public contact positions

This according to a friend of mine - who should know

While employed as Thai Airways ticket counter staff, she started her transition in "stealth" mode - wig to conceal long hair and only a little makeup - and was (more or less) accepted by peers and supervisor

Whe she took the plunge for breast implants, however, she (as told to her by her supervisor) "crossed the line" of acceptability and was given an ultimatum - remove the implants, resign, or be sacked

Much to her credit, she went in the next day to turn in her ID card and uniform and hasn't looked back since

When the previous thread on this subject came out, I asked her about the LB flight attendant

She indicated that she had not heard of this, but speculated that a ladyboy MIGHT be able to survive at TG provided she was post-op, 110% passable, and - most importantly - had extraordinarily high family connections

Since her departure from the airline almost 2 years ago, she has worked in a bar, appeared on this site twice, and has done high-end escort work to survive

I just received an e-mail from her last week saying that a close friend had found a position for her as a credit card customer service agent in a call center

Kudos to her for trying to make a go of it in a mainstream job again

Like Mai-kee, I have met several other Thai LBs working in professional jobs (including a commercial property manager and a veterinary medicine doctor) ONLY by dint of family connections

Both agree with my notion that - while LBs may be accepted in a social and cultural sense in Thailand - the barriers to professional success are stratospheric if one attempts to break out of the accepted professions of cosmetics/beauty and entertainment

In all of Asia, I know of only one LB who has made a go of it based solely on intelligence and hard work

As previously mentioned, she passed her CPA boards at age 20 and now

- works as an auditor in a government office during the day;

- tutors other accounting students and attends law school (3rd year) at night; and

- keeps the accounting books and does tax returns for several businesses in her spare time

When I asked her how she had done all this in the in a country (Philippines) with professional barriers similar to those in Thailand, she replied that her home town (a regional university center) had the highest literacy rate in the country

Only in a well-educated (and thus more open-minded) environent was she able to exploit a thin margin of tolerance and - by dint of hard work, force of personality, and professional competence - achieve professional recognition and acceptance without the benefit of family connections

Even so, it can be tough going for her occasionally - working as an auditor in a country where corruption is found everywhere has been a challenge

While her personality and professional acumen is such that she has been able to "work the system" to keep corrupt local government officials reasonably happy and yet balance the books to the satisfaction of the head office in Manila, she knows that - someday - a confrontation is inevitable

Thus her desire to build on her CPA and auditing skills with a J.D. degree and get above the fray

When she passes the bar in 18 months, she hopes to find a job either in a law firm (representing officials and corporate officers who dip too deep and are subject to prosecution) or the justice department (investigating and prosecuting same)

When I asked her what she thought her chances were, she replied with both confidence and a sense of realism:  

"I can probably go to work for the NBI [National Bureau of Investigation] the day I pass the bar, but a 'Top 20' law firm will be tougher - but if anybody can do it, I can"

Given that most of her LB school mates have for years made big bucks as escorts in Hong Kong (and, in several cases, started successful businesses back home for which she keeps the books) one can only admire her ambition

As Mai-kee and Looker put it so well, however, she is the happy exception to an unfortunate norm

Sadly, in almost every country in the world, being bright and diligent is not sufficient to overcome prejudice against a transgendered person in a position of professional responsibility or authority

[Snick]

I should add that in Thailand one big exception is Fashion and Entertainment where LB seem to have much more success than in other industries. I know many LB who work in the fashion business as designers, salepeople, organizers, etc... And in entertainment as set designers, costume, hair and makeup, and actresses (usually the LB plays the scheming sidekick).

[Mai-Kee]

Absolutely! Fashion, movie, theater, dance - the entertainment industry as such is also anywhere else on this planet considered as THE places where TG's are already part of the spectrum.
Only a pity if you are a TS have an MBA in economics and don't give a shit about the latest Dolce&Gabbana collection......

To thick81: Cheers mate, fantastic post!!!

MK

[Snick]

but what LB does not care about the latest Dolce&Gabbana collection !!!??

[Mai-Kee]

LOL.... a rare gem indeed!!!

[snejana_demientrovska]

reply to thick81

wow whos that LB lawyer you are talking to my god she is surely successfull........i was wondering if she could be a spokes person on fighting the rights of homosexuals and transgender life and give them equal oppurtunity and convince the people to open up thier minds.........

well im sure this girl is quite convincing and confident cause to be honest its also what is needed to get into a good profession confidence and well a fluent speaker and prove to those people what they are good at............but mostly LB are loosing some hope on this professional thing thats why most of them prefer to work in escorts cause more money and they enjoy more sex...........

[Guest]

Mai-Kee, you said it perfectly.

I was growing tired of the 'everything's equal' in Thailand for LBs and jobs.

May has an accounting degree. Her jobs to date were...a) Doing laundry in her sister's shop, b) Working at Cascades for about 2 weeks until I scooped her up.

Ask the next LB you go out with what she thinks her chances are in getting a normal job. I think you'll find 99.9% think they cannot get a job. And from what I observe in those that do, it is those that are very feminine looking, attractive. If you're a LB you have trouble. If you're not very feminine and attractive, you have near zero chance of a job.

[PANICOS]

if u remember few years ago (2 or 3) a photo of 2 flight attendants (thai airways) it was in the forum.one of them was an lb,working on the 904 flight from athens to
bkk.i remember when i saw the photo i regognice that flight attendant as one of the attendants on that flight i was many many times(i fly twise a year to bkk for the past 11 years and allways on that flight,).i only met her twice on that flight but that time i didnt know that she was an lb.i just couldnt tell.after i saw the photo in the forum and read about her i saw her again on the same flight once more...after that not again. but next month i am flying again to bkk but this time i will ask one of the
male attendants who is always on that flight to tell me
more about her and were she is now....this last one is for Rxpharm who i dont know how to contact him.

[SamplerDoc]

Contact button

[rxpharm]

merged the two topics, Panicos you can use the PM (Private Message) function to contact board members.

Thanks for checking on your next trip, hope you can find out something!

[dummy_plug]

All of the LBs I've talked to NOT in the game say its very hard for them to get a job. Why does anyone find it so surprising? Discrimination exists in many different forms in every part of the world - the closest most of us can see is discrimination against homosexuals. I think in the US its very apparent that in general, being gay is going to be a hindrance in getting a good job and moving up in the corporate world. Things are light years better I think for them now than say 20 years ago, but there's still the proverbial glass ceiling that women have always saw. There are of course always exceptions to the rule, but they account for rare 1-2% that slip through the cracks for various reasons (family connections, etc.).

I digress though. I thought one of the main reasons for LBs not being able to get what we would deem as "normal" jobs in the business world was because of some forms they must produce to prospective employers? My understanding is that these are government forms and due to their failed military checkup there are negative remarks on them, which is what most local companies use as their excuse to not hire LBs. I could be totally wrong, but I think I've read that in a few places.

At any rate, I do think there are girls in the industry that aren't there by choice, but without any other career prospects I guess I can't blame them so much.

[rxpharm]

Hi DP, back home from your SG adventures? Actually the military "comment" use to be stamped mental illness. However, this was changed about 3 years ago to another reason not so harsh is now stamped on their record.

I have a few lb friends who have also told me that record is reviewed by potential employers. With the old comment it is very difficult for them to find a good job. The real test will be when these younger lbs try the job market. If they still have problems, then it would be clear this was just an excuse from the beginning.

By the way, I seem to remember you had agreed to report your SG adventures if the SG board members showed you around. Sounds like you had a good time there!

[si geena]

Don't push DP. You know once he starts, all of us will be waiting expectantly for his updates and he's never really completed any of his stories.

Cock-tease in the worst possible way.

Back to the topic, in Singapore, if you do not complete your military service, usually due to "mental history", then it'll be marked on your record. (Completion refers to 2 years fulltime and 20 odd years parttime.)

However, our post-ops do get a clean record since their legal documents will be amended to reflect female gender.

[rxpharm]

for Panicos to update with his results of his investigation!