Hormones

[Guest]

I heard that most LB's will be lucky to see the age of 50 because of the constant use of hormones. Does hormone use reduce a persons life expectancy?

Do the LB's need a special prescription to get them?

And are steroids basically 'male hormones?'

Sorry for the ignorance....[I]

[Tomcat]

I heard that most LB's will be lucky to see the age of 50

Male life expectancy is 58 at birth in Thailand. Women is 62 so i would have thought that the hormones would have kicked in a few extra bonus years for LBoys so this does surprise me. Ill research this and let you know. please wait

I will keep my fee as low as possible

TC

[Guest]

I've researched hormone impacts as much as possible. Truth is, there are no long term studies, and even existing studies are pretty average. However, if you just think of what it is doing, i.e., adding estrogen to you, which is what all ladies have, then I'm with Tomcat, it likely INCREASES your life expectancy and health. It is not some bizarre, wiz-ass drug, it is estrogen, that's all.

Many menopausal women, and ladies defficient in estrogen also take "hormones" (i.e., estrogen). I've never read anything bad about that.

[Looker]

Many menopausal women, and ladies defficient in estrogen also take "hormones" (i.e., estrogen). I've never read anything bad about that.

It is an interesting topic since LBs talk about taking hormones with the ease like we pop chewing-gums in out mouth.
In Thailand you can buy any drug w/o prescription and that is a convenience in a way but a danger in another!
We all know that some kinds of hormones and steroids can have lethal side effects, like the ones taken by bodybuilders, but really no idea, in the case of estrogebns, how the body can react to these substances.
I'm surprised that so little is known...

[post-op lover]

Eh, I think I read long ago about the effects of estrogen and other hormones over periods spanning at least 20 years.

IIRC, there is a decreased risk of some types of disease, perhaps heart, and certainly male-dominant diseases, but increases in breast cancer. Not sure about post-ops.

Anyway, I think that a pre-op should at least have her balls removed if she's going to take estrogen for decades.

[Guest]

Yes, that's right. If you recall a boring post I did about 6 weeks ago, I basically spent 1 full day reading all the PubMed articles on estrogen impacts on transsexuals. Summary was...stronger bones (estrogen is a major contributor to bone growth), better memory (isn't it always the woman who remembers where you put your keys), increase in breast cancer (naturally).

But if you really scan PubMed or other places, as I've tried, you'll find the amount of work very limited, and sometimes studying bizarre things. Like why did the guy do a study on the impacts to short term memory of estrogen adoption by transsexuals? Like what drove him to that? Why not a study on mental impacts, or long-term health?

[Guest]

See these articles for a quick primer on HRT

Wikipedia Hormone Replacement Therapy (trans)

Transgender HRT treatment protocols - Tom Waddell Health Center

As an aside - at my insistence, a LB friend of mine in Manila took the Waddell protocols to an endocrinologist before starting on hormones

This physician - who had no previous experience in the treatment of transgendered persons - immediately recognizing the obvious value of such protocols to a transgendered population that has traditionally relied on anecdotal experiences, word of mouth, etc in pursuing (what she regards as the dangerous practice of) self-administered HRT

As a consequence of this experience - and at the invitation of my friend - this physician is now a regular speaker at STRAP - Society of Transexual Women in the Philippines meetings in Manila

My .02 USD worth -

The "Real and Potential Adverse Effects"  of incorrect / self-administered dosages of estrogen and progesterone (Waddell, pages 7-8) are, in a phrase, eye-opening

While it is just my opinion, I believe all of us who have loved ones (or just favorite GFs) who are taking hormones should do our best to educate and encourage them in seeking proper care in pursuing HRT

PS (for POL) -

In reply to your

Anyway, I think that a pre-op should at least have her balls removed if she's going to take estrogen for decades.

I have seen no mention of castration in the professional reading I have done on this topic

If you can contribute some information to this discussion that is based in fact and medicine, it would doubtless be appreciated by all

Until then, may I respectfully suggest that you refrain from further comments based not in fact but in hearsay, anecdotal experience, misguided fantasy, or simply bigotry?

With thanks

[post-op lover]

PS (for POL) -

In reply to your

Anyway, I think that a pre-op should at least have her balls removed if she's going to take estrogen for decades.

I have seen no mention of castration in the professional reading I have done on this topic

If you can contribute some information to this discussion that is based in fact and medicine, it would doubtless be appreciated by all

Until then, may I respectfully suggest that you refrain from further comments based not in fact but in hearsay, anecdotal experience, misguided fantasy, or simply bigotry?

With thanks

You crack me up.

While looking up bigotry on such reputable sites as Wikipedia , come back and report what it means. It certainly isn't applicable.

Second, do you really think this is a board for reputable medical advice? (If so, go back to looking things up in Wikipedia.)

Third, what in gods name do you think a bunch of perverts are going to do with reputable medical advice? There's only about 4 people on here who seem to have any kind of long term relationships (real ones, not just sugar daddy) with LBs.

As for medical stuff, I'll admit that I'm no doc (and do you fancy yourself a doc?). However, I would say that there are very few people around who have read as much as I have on the matter. I've not kept up in recent years, but I would say that starting around 15 years ago, I spent about 5 years trying to find everything ever published, and I would say that I was pretty darn read up on the prior 40 or so years of the literature. So, my coverage in the last 10 years is pretty spotty, but then I found that the internet became sufficiently amusing. Maybe you're just getting up to speed here, so stick around & enjoy the sights for awhile.

Just chill and you'll be okay.

And since I'm such a gentleman, I'll applaud your work in finding good info on hormones & your efforts to educate others.

[Mai-Kee]

Why is everybody talking only about estrogenes? The standard prescription for TS is a mix of anti-androgenes AND estrogenes (like for instance Androcure and Premarin). You aso cannot compare it in anyway to a gg hormone treatment. The doses are way above and the use of course a lot longer than a regular menopause treatment and have therefore serious sideeffects, especially liverdeseases and the already mentioned breast cancer. It also is NOT true that the hormone (replacement) therapy is good for the bones. The contrary is true: It actually increases the osteoporosis risk big time!
One of the reasons for that - as mentioned already by Thick - in LOS (or actually anywhere in SE-Asia) there is NEVER any doctor involved. I actually haven't even found an endocrinology station in a Thai hospital (and I was seriously looking for one). As far as I know only the Bumrungrad has one (but also just recently), which is supposed to be the best hospital in Thailand and of course totally unaffordable for the girls. All those a/m sideffects are actually caused by major overdoses (which is standard, because the advisors are the girls themselves) and far too long treatments. Most of the Thais start during puberty. The feminization effects are therefore of course extremely high (that's why are they so incredibly good looking and keep guys like us travelling or even moving to LOS). Those effects are less effective the longer after puberty the therapy is started - and that's why a lot of the caucasian TS look how they look as the average treatment for western girls starts around 40 - due to whatever sociocultural reasons....
Further infos: http://sexuality.org/l/transgen/m2f.html

MK

[Guest]

Mae-Kee, with all due respect, I don't post BS. Look on PubMed for for studies showing bone thickness improvement in transsexuals taking androgens and estrogen. I can re-find it for you, but it's there. If the study was faulty, I have no idea, but it's there. I can't speak for others, but I loosely use the term estrogen to imply androgens & estrogen.

As for similarity to menopausal treatment and estrogen "increments", the doses, from what I know, are similar to what some LBs take. As you know, LBs take wildly different doses, as do ladies, so I don't know how you could possibly say they are different and irrelevant.

However, I think the one point we are converging on is that the studies are really not so great, and I, like POL and Thick and Mae-Kee, have been looking at this in some depth. I visited 5 doctors so far for May in the last 2 months. All are the top doctors in Bangkok for LBs. IMHO, I knew more than most of these guys on the technical side. I was truly not impressed with even one of these guys. They are all out to make a buck, especially on gullible, foreign women, whom they charge 2 times the rate for Thai LBs.

[Mai-Kee]

That's what I said, there are NO docs in LOS who are competent on that matter. Try Singapore - they're ahead! On the osteoporosis thing, unfortunately I'm afraid I'm right here. I went through all this years ago with my lt TS gf, consulted specialists in Europe and the US. The doses an average LB in LOS takes are not even close to those gg's take for menopause treatments! These days menopause treatments, BECAUSE of the breast cancer risk, are actually done with Isovlavones - natural hormone substitutes (which actually could also be a - very soft possibility of course - for LB's, if those Isovlavones would be available in LOS - what they aren't. Any child can get high dosage hormones over the counter, but natural hormone substitutes are just not available in Thailand.
It IS a bloody unhealthy game and the only advise here can be to see an endicrinologist in a very early stage. That means for our beloved girls who could never, even there were any competent people around, afford their help - stop the hormone therapy after a couple of years at the latest and get some boobs implanted. It's the easiest and safest way and they are blessed already compared to their caucasian siters. Neary no laser necessary, perfect bone structure, in general no hair-loss problems.... no need for hormones, really!

MK

[Guest]

As far as I'm aware there are no "patches" in Thailand, i.e., only oral or injection. My understanding is that patches are safer and more effective, meaning you need less dosage for the same result. You know of patches in any Asian country? I'd like to look at that for May perhaps. I don't want her taking oral or injections, and we both are only thinking of extremely low dosages.

[liisawinkler]

i dont think it will cause long term damage if the hormones are taken in moderation and at the right dosage per day...and also the consultation with your endocrinologist....

[Mai-Kee]

I haven't seen any patches in LOS either. As you said, mainly oral or injections....

MK

[post-op lover]

By the way, compared to all the other risks, what is their risk of lung cancer? How many smoke? Or risk OD'ing from harder drugs? Toss in STDs, traffic, and so on, and I think the risk ratio of non-hormonal causes to hormonal causes is possibly higher in Thailand than elsewhere. What a cheerful thought!