Long term relationship

[gunslinger]

found my love and could not be happier

u live with your missus?

[Guest]

Jeez, I couldn't disagree more with a lot of what my friends here are saying. But this is a forum for straight talk right? No offense meant, just straight opinions for the benefit of all of us.

I've seen LBs with kids. They are about 1000% better than a lot of ladies I've seen with kids. And for me, an LB is a lady anyhow. And having a dick is no moral judgement of her character. Is it a judgement of yours? A kid growing up with a beautiful mother who loves her, when that kid will never see that mother's dick, I can see nothing wrong with that. What many of us don't know is that there is probably a fair percentage of us who had gay fathers or lesbian mothers, and they were still wonderful people. Since when does gender association equate to being good parents or good people in general?

I lived in China for 2 years in a hotel adjacent to the US embassy. American couples stayed at the hotel when they were adopting Chinese kids. I saw 1000s of these couples every Saturday, Sunday morning eating breakfast with their new kids. Wat I can absolutely 1 million % assure you, is that Stogie and Kui, and myself and maybe X (of the twins), and Nick and Ning-Nong of C&D, and ...., would make parents far, far, far better than most of the often bizarre couples I saw completely unfit to raise children come in to that hotel.

[brocklanders]

Thats a wonderful pipe dream and may be true if you are living in Thailand as pretty much everything is accepted. I just think that is pushing the envelope just way too far and puts an unreasonable amount of pressure and stress upon any kid.

[PILOS]

You know, it's all well and good to say one would never do "a" or "b," or advise against doing "c" or "d" --- but when Cupid singles you out, you're a goner ... " 'Tis better to have loved and lost ... " Follow the heart, not the head. Hurts more, yes, but one lives more, too.

[Randyman]

I'd be a bad parent.

Uncle Stogie???

Break out the prozak
randyman

[Tomcat]

. Since when does gender association equate to being good parents or good people in general?

I agree with you Ziggy that gay people may indeed make good parents, i havnt seen any studies but ill take your word for it, the point is that the social stigma implications in some countries could make life untenable for a Kids at school.

BKK is not the same as South London or Taipei

This debate still rages on in the press and i would still like to see some Scientific studies on the effects on the children.

[Guest]

anyone wanna go back to whether it is nature or nurture that decides a kids sexuality? I still say nurture, that kids become gay based on what they see and learn in their earliest years of development and I still haven't seen any proof here or otherwise to make me think differently.

so what would happen if gay parents raised a child? happens all the time now in the states and other western countries, and I would love to see a study of how those children turn out. I would also love to see what all the 'nature' people would have to say if little Johnny becomes gay at 17 after being raised by 2 gay men from age 6 months; "Sure, he was born that way anyway and their upbringing had no impact on how he was going to turn out". yeah, right.

[Tomcat]

The Psychology of (gay) sexual orientation by G Owen has just been released and is a Scientific treatise on the subject. It concludes that sexual orienation is fixed biologically at birth. Around a dozen studies are presented to bolstere the theory that sexuality is innate.

This guy has spent along time studying this subject and i pracy above an earlier report from New Scientist from around 6 months ago. I think his name is George . The full Title has a suffix which does not appear . i sure one can trace it.....

Maybe one of us can read it,,,, not exactly poolside reading though , although it is the most recent study on subject in hand.

[brocklanders]

I am all for a gay couple raising children but I think a straight or gay man married to an aging ladyboy is just way out there and would lead to utter confusion for any child.     If the ladboy is young and still passable, how do you explain to the child that his mom is really his other dad? Do you tell the child that his mom is a real woman even though born a man?  Does the kid call the ladyboy mom if its a post-op and dad if its a preop?  What does the child think when he sees mom pissing while standing up?   May sound funny but kids are impressionable and need some structure and boundaries and this type of set up just screams of therapy for the children.  Sure, more importantly is whether the parents care for the child and give him the proper attention and boundaries but societal factors play a huge part, whether our liberal minds want to believe it or not.

[Guest]

@donnnny
Yep JeJe is a great girl, i had a great time staying at her appartment too, we did go out to play 8 Ball and we played with her old Nintendo and did watch a dvd.
After that we watched her pictures in the Internet and she did get horny, so i had a great time and
i was sitting there and was thinking, "Damn she is a better then a girl friend "
But when you hear all the stories from her and the other Ladyboys it`s better to not have a relationship

[Guest]

      If this thread is talking about a "long-term relationship" in the sense of a man dating a ladyboy for a year or 2 and having it work out, sure  that can happen.  If it means a long term relationship in the true sense of that term, like 2 people meeting and falling in love and spending the rest  of their lives together with only each other than  I have never seen that happen and I am not holding out much hope for the future.

C'mon Jai Dee, we both know that doesnt happen in the normal world EITHER, REALLY... Even in America, you are doing pretty fucking good if you can make something last past 5 years...

...especially if you don't hate the person afterwards.

[Guest]

I would just like to add that this is a pretty damn great thread. Lots of very wise words being said. From a variety of angles... Such a complex subject.. Sure its very easy (and accurate) to generalize that you will NOT have a good true longterm relationship with a bargirl.... You can pretty much COUNT ON THAT. BUT, having said that, it DOES happen... Are you gonna be the 1 in 100 that it DOES happen with? Again, don't count on it.

[Guest]

I still think the true meaning of long-term relationship is when 2 people stay together forever or at least say, 20 years? what else could the meaning of "long-term" be? 2 years? 3 years? 5 years? Hell, even I have had a few of those but I don't consider them long-term when they END. sure, anyone can meet a bargirl or any other person and have a 2- or 3 -year relationship; I don't really consider that long term myself.

[Guest]

I think this thread and the thread about homosexuality are the best we've had, and they are the most discussed topics in academia and social science, so it's not unusual to see many views. What differs with us, is we love these ladies, whereas most studies seem to be by heteros, so frankly, I think our views have more depth.

I note Tomcat's comment, and raise an important distinction. There are really 3 questions. First, can a man and ladyboy raise a good child? Second, separate from that (Tomcat's comment), can society accept it? Third (JaeDee's), will they "nurture" a gay child?

I'm very, very opinionated on this, and believe me, I was absolutly not this way 3 years ago.

On the first, for me, this is no brainer. Two good people, of any sex or orientation, can be good parents. As I noted, two people of opposite sex can be AWFUL parents. Only about a gazillion examples of this.

Second, I think it is correct, of any society, Thailand is likely the only one that would accept this, unless anohter society thought the LB was a girl.

Third, for me it is also no brainer, it is not nurture, it is nature. I am with my friends, the twins. When I asked when they felt they were a woman, they simultaneously said "when we were born", i.e., not at year 5 or 15 or 20, but from the day they can remember. I ask this question to every LG I meet, and I'd say the majority say the same, but a few answer 7, 12, 15, whatever. My parents were as die-hard heteros as you can imagine. I am not. There was no nurturing to make me different, believe me.

[Guest]

no one would nurture their son or daughter to be gay, at least you would hope that no one would do that, even gay parents.  some  people like me  are proponents of the side of the theory that says people are not born with how their sexuality will turn out, but that societal input {usually just things they see and learn, and not always something overtly done by the parents} during their upbringing effects the way they become.  I still believe it and as I say, if a Doctor came up with definitive proof that children are born with their sexuality intact that would be the leading story on every newscast for a week and we would all know about it; check this;  

 " The Psychology of (gay) sexual orientation by G Owen has just been released and is a Scientific treatise on the subject. It concludes that sexual orienation is fixed biologically at birth. Around a dozen studies are presented to bolstere the theory that  sexuality is innate."

    "bolster the theory" is the key here; THEORY.  no proof....... if this guy had proof he would have solved a puzzle that homosexuals the world over have been asking themselves and the scientific community for at least 30 years now. And his thesis would be called PROOF and it would be the number 1 story on CNN all week and we would all know it and this debate would be ended.  It would have been akin to finding the cure for AIDS and we would not have to go on some obscure google hunt to find relevant information.  Fact is, from what I can tell, the scientific community is still split on it and so was the poll we had here, about 60/40;  for every 10 geniuses who back up this guys theory you can find 10 more who will back up another Doctor's theory that it is something learned in society.

 Jeez,  I can't believe you guys can't see the obvious in regards to ourselves becoming bi-sexuals; do you really believe that we were all born to like ladyboys and that it was pre-destined before birth?  Or was it  more likely that we encountered them somewhere in society, were fascinated by them, and wanted to try it out.  didn't something we saw in society flip a switch that said "hey, I wanna try that out".  I would love to see one doctor anywhere tell me that my interest in ladyboys was there before I was even born.