Hiv+ ladyboys

[Guest]

Not to rain on anyones parade, but these posts from The Cynic were made over 1.5 years ago, so the ladyboys mentioned are likely out of the business or have passed away at this time. Still the posts emphasize the risk of AIDS in our 'hobby'

... some names

Just about ALL the Simon ladyboys have Thai boyfriends (can't survive without them, financially) and freelance on the side. So when you say that you have only screwed Simon girls, you are in effect screwing freelancers!! As an aside, a good proportion of the better ones from Simon are now working in Kings III, and other bars in Bangkok! Now if that isn't serious working, I don't know what is. Check 'em out.....Yo, O, Note, Nut, Nuey, Bom and those are just the ones that spring to mind, there are others.

Ponlien said she was going to Bangkok, but was still in Chiangmai the other day.

... the names

The ones to steer well clear of in Chiangmai are mainly "Alex" who till three months ago was working in Jenny Star bar in Walking street Pattaya. She has full blown AIDS, and is still working. She came home to Chiangmai to be near her family. There are others that are HIV+ and these include "Mot" a local freelancing ladyboy. Several new freelancers out of a nightime that eminate from the gay area of the night bazaar. This is a very dangerous bar area that centers around the "Jackpot bar", and most of the "ladyboys" are gays in wigs, some being quite attractive, like "Ken" and "Day". Ken lives with a gay Thai, who mainly does his business with tourists, and Day lives with another freelancing ladyboy called Apple. Last one I can think of, is Nong, a new freelancer. She is very thin, but very attractive. She never freelanced before, but lost her job, and took to the street.

with two other ladyboy deaths from HIV in the last few weeks. One being a popular ladyboy featured on several sites (not this one)

Sorry to hear that...May I know who is she?

Morning Scorpio,
in your thirst for morbidity, you may certainly know who she was. Her name was "Surin" or just Rin pronounced Lin (Thais are lazy and always use L instead of R)
Although she worked in Chiangmai for a long time, her family originally came from Rayong. She lived with a Japanese for a while, who "sponsored" he breast implants, and other cosmetic surgery......

And another

As a p.s. to my last post, be careful out there! There are currently two ladyboys freelancing, that are HIV positive. One is an ex Pattaya ladyboy, (Jenny Star bar) and has come home to expire, and the other is a local ladyboy. It's common knowledge amongst all the other ladyboys, but never the less they are STILL out working!! One is fairly advanced, and you will pick her by the spots that cover her body.....Rather scary really. The other one just looks a little thin. Not fair to mention their names here, but if anyone is going there, and wants the information, they can mail me.

....and a caution on Chianmai LBs (the best looking)

The fact of the matter is.......Nobody really knows what the exact figures are for HIV positive people of either sex in Thailand. All reports and statistics that one reads are conflicting. I can only speak personally for Chiangmai and Chiangrai which are reputed to be the AIDS capitols of Thailand. In Chiangrai the incidence HIV positive sex workers is extremely high, currently running around fifty percent, but bear in mind that the majority of these are Myanmar nationals working illegally in Thailand. These cases are limited to the local brothels, where young Burmese girls as young as fourteen are working. The gay scene in Mae Sai and Chaingrai is pretty well non existant, but there are ladyboys working in both cities.

Chiangmai is a different ball game, with a massive gay community from the four universities, Chaingmai, Phayap, Phayo, and Maejo. They are also home to thousands of ladyboys. The gay bar scene rivals that of Bangkok, and the amount of gay clubs and saunas is incredible.

... how about the LBs boyfriends?

Most of the working ladyboys have a Thai boyfriend, although they will never admit it to you. "Bam" being a prime example. Her boy friend sleeps with both gays and ladies, and this is a continuing basis for ongoing arguements between them. She was sporting a bruise on the cheek last week as a result of a quick smack from the boyfriend. I asked her why she still stayed with him. "He good to me" was the reply.....I give up sometimes.

... or deaths

Most weeks I hear of a gay death from an HIV related complication, and quite a few I have known personally.
A good gauge is to visit the public HIV ward at the Suan Dork hospital, and do a head count. Absolutely frightening, or coversely visit the Vieng Ping orphanage at Mae Rim, which has a 35/40% HIV count.

... how good are condoms at protecting you?

Use of condoms to prevent AIDS might be somewhat effective if you or your partner have open sores. But condoms are overrated for AIDS prevention; they only cut the risk of catching AIDS in half becaues the AIDS virus is actually smaller than pores on a condom.

More important, AIDS is difficult catch, and is only really contagious in the first few weeks after infection, or during full-blown AIDS (where it's probably going to show, and you won't have much energy for sex anyway).

The greatest risk comes (we now know through African epidemiological studies) from groups of simultaneous multiple partners. This is because there is about only a one week period were AIDS is contagious (right after acquisition) then viral levels drop to nil for years. This is why Africa has 30%-40% infection rates rather than the 1% to 2% seen in Thailand and the PI. Africa has lots of guys with a wife and 3 to 10 girlfriends and girls with as many boyfriends. If one person in this extended cohort group is in the contagious phase, it gets passed around the whole group.


Condoms are important for preventing more contagious (but treatable) ailments. In Thailand and the PI mainly gonorrhea and chlymidia which are increasingly antibiotic resistant around 10% of cases in PI and 5% in Thailand, but mayby 25% in Patayya are antibiotic resistant). You can get rid of the antibiotic resistant strains, it just takes a lot more trouble and time.

[Guest]

Treat every person you contact in a way that ANY bodily fluids are exchanged as if they could be HIV+. Anyone who works in the sex trade must be considered infected until proven otherwise. Even a negative HIV test may be false assurance as it can take six months for it to change in spite of having the virus. If you can exist in a strictly monogamous relationship with your honey for the six months and then test negative, you're pretty safe to go bare. But not otherwise.

Kissing someone on the lips or indulging in French kissing is vanishingly unlikely to result in virus transmission. But any other instance where the infected person could expose an open wound, body fluids, or blood to you can result in transmission of the virus particularly, but not necessarily, if you have any break in the skin.

That's the bad news. The good news is that condoms when used correctly are highly effective in preventing infection of many kinds including HIV. Do not believe the tale that they are not:

"A commonly held misperception is that latex condoms contain "holes" that allow passage of HIV. Although this may be true for natural membrane condoms, laboratory studies show that intact latex condoms provide a continuous barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm."

For a more in depth review see the following:

http://www.thebody.com/cdc/factcond.html

Remember: NO GLOVE NO LOVE NO EXCEPTIONS

[brocklanders]

As soon as I see empirical evidence that a person can get HIV transmission from receiving a BBBJ is the day I stop doing it with ladyboys. All I see is speculation and no controlled tests. Anyone that has been to Tijuana knows that covered BJ's are the norm and they absolutely suck. Might as well not get the BJ at all as there is zero sensation.

[Looker]

I hope we are now done with these funereous threads!
We all know how risky the business is, and all perils we enconter everyday in our lives are not making things easier. Car accidents, diseases, pollution, alterated foods and others are just potentially taking away years of life or taking it away at once.
If you want to have a safe life, get an employement as librarian at the library near home and possibly on the same side of the road so that you don't have to cross it! Eat only the food you grow in your bathroom and have sex only by wanking yourself..not too hard anyway, please...

[Guest]

brocklander
go ask yourdoctor , ask him the risks and  
he will tell you. My best mate  traveled with me for  20 od  years in asia .  he is a doctor (who hates condoms but loves  girls gg)and told me all the risks,  this was a few years ago and things change.  i was told the chances of  infection (hiv)  from oral sex are virually nill  also   from vaginal sex it  was extreamly unlikly  to  contract  (hiv). the nature of the virus  as  taz   has said  is that its difficult to get it. 10 times easier  to get hepatitus.But what  he did say was if you start fucking in the ass you increase your chances of infection.always usa  e a condom. (even if  im sure  well have slipped up )\
i  think we need to  get a reliable doctor who knows  this stuff to  do a write up  on the whole subject  and put a few rumors and urban myths to rest.
cheers donnnnnny

[Guest]

I think we occassionally need to talk about HIV and other STD's. When we talk shop on this forum I think it would be incomplete if we avoided the STD's. They are a very real part of the LB world which some of us indulge in. Even though we may have heard it all before, it is something nice to keep fresh in your mind the next time the Viagra kicks in.

And then there's always the new information about the infected LB's that is vitally important to hear. Some dude may have just read these threads and then goes out and meets Ms. HIV+, he will be able to run the other way. Information is always our buddy.

[kartika]

check out this site. www.thebody.com shitloade of information on hiv/aids, safe sex, treatment, research etc. Very informative and non judgemental. run by a group of doctors with a bi/gay twist. Well resourced and linked to a lot of medical sites so it cuts through the bull and gets to the facts. Have a look in the forums on safe sex.

[Wethair]

Anyone know how big risk there are of getting HIV by getting a sperm load in the mouth and swallow?
Without bleeding gums og something like that.
I have heard that it`s most dangerous to have the sperm in the mouth rather than just swallow.

Anyone know?

[Guest]

Any infective agent needs a portal of entry to the host. The most dangerous routes are open sores or places where the skin has been breached as the microbe has direct access to your tissue and bloodstream. The potential for infection is directly related to the load of infectious agent present and the time that those agents are in contact with an area where they can enter the body. There are other ways like the Langerhans immune cells in the foreskin but that's a special case.

If, and this is a big if, you could know that there is NO tissue damage in your mouth or upper GI tract then either the pre-cum or a mouth load of ejaculate would not be too worrisome. Do remember that we all produce varying amounts of pre-ejaculate when we are excited and this is going to be present in your mouth for the entire period of play. Obviously the final shot can be disposed of straight away. Saliva does have some anti-microbial properties and stomach acid pretty much eats everything alive. Can you be absolutely sure you don't have some low grade gingivitis or periodontal disease which could open a port? You also realize that brushing your teeth or eating food with much more consistency than baby food creates micro-trauma to your gums?

Being the giver of the BBBJ could be exciting as hell but you are spinning the cylinder and then pulling the trigger on a Russian roulette gamble.

Much better to pleasure her with a slightly loose but intact condom (be sure to put a little lube in the tip of the condom before putting it on her). She'll find it almost as pleasing with lots of sensation and you won't have the dread of waiting for your next HIV test to come back.

[Guest]

yadda yadda .... agents are in contact with an area where they can enter the body... like the Langerhans immune cells in the foreskin but that's a special case... yadda yadda

Good point, given that most of the Thai LBs are uncircumcised so have their foreskin intact ( ). Langerhans cells are initial targets (sort of a sponge) for HIV following sexual exposure and provide an efficient means for HIV to gain access to lymph node T cells. So you really increase your HIV risk with any sort of sex with uncircumcised LBs

[Wethair]

My englich is not so good, but.....

Is it so that acid from stomac cills the HIV virus?
So, if you get semen in your mouth you can just swallow with no more danger that spit it out?

[BAM]

10 times easier  to get hepatitus.

Yes Hep B is really something you should be more worried about... it's 200 times more contagious then HIV and it can kill you too in time just like HIV. Hep B attacks your Liver and it's a horrible way to die. The good news is that there is a vaccination for both hep A&B. Anyone who's playing around with girls in Asia that€™s not been vaccinated is really playing with fire since 15% of the population of Asia is a carrier of Hep B and this is something you can get if not vaccinated... there is no reason not to get the shots and be protected.

[Guest]

Recent Study Shows One In Four Gay Men in Bangkok HIV+

ALARMING HIV DATA - 19 August 2005
Bangkok - A study by the Ministry of Public Health (MOPH) in collaboration with the US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the Thai Red Cross Society and the Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand, conducted between June 13 and July 16, revealed a 28.3 per cent HIV prevalence rate compared to 17.3 per cent in 2003. Foreigners were not included in the study.

The results were presented at the HIV Prevention and Care Interventions for MSM in the Greater Mekong Region €“ Regional Consultative Forum in Bangkok held on August 15 and 16. In 2003, researchers enrolled 1121 Thai men who were 18 years or older, residents of Bangkok, and reported anal or oral sex with a man during the past six months. They were sampled at various venues throughout the day. Venues frequented by large numbers of foreign gays were excluded.

Participants received a an informed consent script and counselled before completing a questionnaire about demographics and sexual and drug use behaviours. An oral fluid specimen was then collected for HIV testing and they were given an identification card for getting their HIV test results and post-test counseling. While interviews and oral specimens were linked through a bar code, data collection was otherwise anonymous.

"This is a very high, alarming and rapid increase. Statistically we can say that between one in four and one in three Thai MSM (men having sex with men) attending venues in Bangkok is infected with HIV," said lead researcher Dr Frits van Griensven at the meeting.

The study also investigated smaller samples of street-based (182) and venue-based (168) male sex workers in Bangkok, which had HIV infection rates of 23 per cent and 15 per cent, respectively. Attributing the high numbers to €œunprotected sexual intercourse, that is, sex without a condom,€ Dr van Griensven said that the "study shows that the risk for HIV infection among these men is high and has increased over the past two years." €œWe need to analyse our data further to understand what factors are associated with these behaviours. In the mean time, we need to promote partner reduction, including abstinence, consistent condom use and voluntary HIV testing and counselling for this population in order to reduce or eliminate unsafe sexual behaviour.€

When asked during the meeting how the HIV infection rates compare to those found among MSM in other parts of the world, Dr van Griensven said that the

€œHIV infection rates are similar as to those found among MSM in urban areas in the Western world, such as San Francisco, New York or Amsterdam€.  

but pointed out that

the €œdifference may be that in Bangkok, MSM get infected at younger ages (among 16-21 year olds the HIV prevalence was already 23%) and that the rates seem to have risen only fairly recently.€

Since the first study in 2003, the MOPH has been working with its partners to expand HIV testing services for MSM, implement peer-driven interventions and to improve the social situation of MSM and establish a research infrastructure to investigate the HIV epidemic among Thai MSM and evaluate interventions to stem new infections.

-END-

A question for the 'local's' here - your estimate please of the percentage of LBs we know and enjoy from this site who have had a sexual relationship with a Thai man in the last two years?

Play safe, men

[Guest]

So to summarize the odds for encountering an HIV+ partner after 1 to 15 encounters ....

Number of Encounters 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15
Odds
2003 Gay population 1/6 1/3 3/7 1/2 3/5 2/3 3/4 7/9 4/5 5/6 7/8 8/9 1 1 1
2005 Gay population 2/7 1/2 5/8 3/4 4/5 6/7 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
2005 Streetwalkers 2/9 2/5 1/2 2/3 3/4 4/5 5/6 7/8 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
2005 Obsessions, Cascades, Casanovas 1/7 2/7 2/5 1/2 5/9 5/8 2/3 3/4 3/4 4/5 5/6 6/7 7/8 8/9 1

Keep this handy on a card in your wallet, and place a check mark next to your number of encounters of each sort

I'd heard speculation about a spike in cases, but this is hard evidence, with unprotected sex, not drugs, as the culprit

[Guest]

No Glove No Love No Exceptions