Thailand Monk School to teach LBs maleness

[Socrates999]

Bin Laden won as soon as the Patriot Bill passed and the Dept to Protekt the Fatherland was established.  He wins a little more every week: TSA, no photos of certain buildings, police SWAT teams (WTF!?), raids on bus stations, warrantless phone taps, searches of your god-damn library records, and, the biggie, Gitmo and the Torture Culture of CheneyGWBRumsfeld-et-al.

When exactly did the US become the country where we jail people for years with NO FUCKING CHARGES?? Where we shoot chosen Americans overseas? Where we invade sovereign nations that have not transgressed us?

Boy, does this shit make me steam.

Oops- sorry for the rant!

[strocube]

(Socrates999 @ Jul. 19 2011,02:54) Bin Laden won as soon as the Patriot Bill passed and the Dept to Protekt the Fatherland was established.  He wins a little more every week: TSA, no photos of certain buildings, police SWAT teams (WTF!?), raids on bus stations, warrantless phone taps, searches of your god-damn library records, and, the biggie, Gitmo and the Torture Culture of CheneyGWBRumsfeld-et-al.

When exactly did the US become the country where we jail people for years with NO FUCKING CHARGES?? Where we shoot chosen Americans overseas? Where we invade sovereign nations that have not transgressed us?

Boy, does this shit make me steam.

Oops- sorry for the rant!  

Yes, that's all true and correct. Let's not forget for a moment, that despite rhetoric to the contrary, Obama is doing the same exact thing. Democrat, republican, same, same. The imperial machine marches on regardless of who is "elected" president.

[rxpharm]

To get back on track a bit, here's a counterpoint editorial from the assistant editor at the Bangkok Post

Bias against ladyboys only adds to hurt
Published: 21/07/2011 at 12:00 AM
Newspaper section: News

What should you do when your son turns out to be a ladyboy? Ask Dem Jinakul, a photographer at Bangkok Post. His answer would make any transsexual teen green with envy.

"Give your child love and acceptance," says Dem emphatically. "It's his life. Your job as a parent is to make him happy with his life, and with himself."

Dem did subtly try to coax his son, Top, to behave more like a boy when he was little. But when the feminine traits became prominent in his teenage years, the father came to realise that his child's happiness was more important than his own wish that his son be more manly.

While in college, Top kept his hair long like a girl's while still wearing the male student uniform. His teacher gave him an ultimatum: "Have a hair cut like other boys if you want to wear pants. If you want to keep your hair long like a girl's, then wear a girl's uniform!"

Top was miserable. He did not want to cut his hair. But he also did not want to make the big gender role jump because he cared for his parents' feelings.

"I understood his pain," said Dem. "His mom and I went out to buy him a girl's uniform the next day."

Such parents are a rare breed. Most other parents cannot accept that their sons are transsexual. When persuasion fails, some resort to threats, even violence. Some believe psychiatric help can cure. Others, like the parents of Pipop Thanajindawong, 15, believes rigorous religious regimen will do the trick.

The teenager recently made news in an AFP story about a temple's course to induct masculinity in ladyboy novices.

"Once I leave the monkhood the first thing I want to do is to shout, to scream out loud, saying, 'I can go back to being the same again'," Pipop told AFP in defiance.

I was flabbergasted when I first heard of such a course. Buddhism teaches us to transcend all forms of prejudice. Men, women and the so-called "third sex" - all need to learn how to transcend the sexual urge through meditating transcience as part of one's spiritual training. Why pick on transsexuals in particular?

Some googling informed me that the course in question was part of a general preparatory programme for novices at Wat Krueng Tai in Chiang Rai's Chiang Khong district, where the course's founder, famous monk V Vajiramedhi, used to study.

To be fair, the course does not focus on transsexuals specifically. It aims at preparing novices to become better monks amid the decline in the public's faith in the clergy.

Monks have lost touch with the modern world, he said. The weak recruitment system has also given rise to rogue monks and all sorts of monastic misconduct, including the proliferation of gay monks and novices, which has upset the lay people.

His course, the monk explained, will complement the novices's study of ancient religious texts with modern education, communicating skills, and "good manners" in line with monastic discipline and public expectations. It is why the issue of ladyboy novices that has been widely reported in the media, is also addressed.

Fine. But as the news story shows: good intentions can go awry in actual practice when the people involved are mired in gender prejudice.For monks to keep telling ladyboys that they are not normal is not only wrong, it also goes against the teachings.

Buddhism does not teach people to hate themselves. It teaches objective acceptance of reality, impermanence, and the false notion of self, heterosexual or homosexual.

Focusing on katoey novices is then unnecessary. It also misses the point. Why not focus on paedophile monks who take advantage of novices? Apart from being traumatised for life, many young victims are encouraged to take on the role of girls and thus become ladyboys.

For parents, the course at Krueng Tai Temple raises the question of whether it is the right thing to do, to push their children away by forcing them to change their sexual orientation.

Dem, my photographer friend, has chosen what it is right for his son. "I chose his happiness. As a result, we remain a close-knit, loving family. For me, that's all that counts."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sanitsuda Ekachai is Assistant Editor, Bangkok Post.

This is more the kind of view I expect to see in LOS>

[pacman]

Focusing on katoey novices is then unnecessary. It also misses the point. Why not focus on paedophile monks who take advantage of novices? Apart from being traumatised for life, many young victims are encouraged to take on the role of girls and thus become ladyboys.

Oh dear...

And THIS is the kind of thing that I am all too well aware of. So to the list of fathers, brothers, uncles & neighbours who interfere with young katoeys, we can add monks. Whoopee-doo...

[f0xxee]

(pacman @ Jul. 22 2011,00:38)

Focusing on katoey novices is then unnecessary. It also misses the point. Why not focus on paedophile monks who take advantage of novices? Apart from being traumatised for life, many young victims are encouraged to take on the role of girls and thus become ladyboys.

Oh dear...      

And THIS is the kind of thing that I am all too well aware of. So to the list of fathers, brothers, uncles & neighbours who interfere with young katoeys, we can add monks. Whoopee-doo...        

Has anyone noted the very public anger of Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny regarding the Catholic Church and thier denial, cover up and refusal to inverstigate the long term sexual abuse and torture of children by paedophile priests noted in the Cloyne Report in the last 48 hours?

How he has complained to the Vatican in the strongest possible terms? Him a Catholic, and leader of possibly the most Catholic country on earth? How he stated there has been an irredemable breach of trust between the Irish Nation and the Catholic Church that may never be overcome?

So can we leave Buddhist bashing and look into your little western back yards for a moment please?

Honestly I don't give a rats-ass whether it is a religious cloister, the military, a prison, or a boarding school... the strong have always buggered the weak and will continue to do so. Yes its wrong. But it is not the majority and it is not endemic, although we could be forgiven for thinking it is in the catholic church.

Paccie, not every child and kotoey in Thailand is tampered with. Not every Thai man is an incestuous paedophile, although it might continue to buff your self image as a white knight to think it.

You have made this generalization many times in your posts over the years. its not true. Move on.

[rusty nail]

(f0xxee @ Jul. 22 2011,10:16) You have made this generalization many times in your posts over the years. its not true. Move on.

As a generalization the comments (and assumptions) posted by Pacman and others (including me) have merit but like you say it (the sexual abuse/incest) doesn't happen to everyone.

Also - I think that the Buddhists on this message board come out of all this pretty unscathed. Most of us are smart enough to know this story is a Western media fictional piece to wet the pants of a few uptight housewives and Christian geeks.

I'd also go as far as to say that Buddhism (whatever it really is) is probably the most respected/tolerated of all the religions here.

To me, Buddhism is just a form of cowardly self denial but it rewards the weak and is ultimately harmless.

The other religions are poisonous and evil social plagues that should be exterminated.

[strocube]

(rusty nail @ Jul. 22 2011,11:59) I'd also go as far as to say that Buddhism (whatever it really is) is probably the most respected/tolerated of all the religions here.

To me, Buddhism is just a form of cowardly self denial but it rewards the weak and is ultimately harmless.

The other religions are poisonous and evil social plagues that should be exterminated.

Dude, you crack me up.
Anyway, as far Buddhism being cowardly self-denial, here's what Tom Robbins has to say about it, and religion in general, in his novel Jitterbug Perfume.

If desire causes suffering, it may be because we do not desire wisely, or that we are inexpert at obtaining what we desire. Instead of hiding our heads in a prayer cloth and building walls against temptation, why not get better at fulfilling desire? Salvation is of the feeble, that's what I think. I do not want salvation, I want life, all of life, the miserable as well as the superb. If the gods would tax ecstasy, then I shall pay; however, I shall protest their taxes at each opportunity, and if Woden or Shiva or Buddha or the Christian fellow--what's his name?--cannot respect that, then I'll accept their wrath. At least I will have tasted the banquet that they have spread before me on this rich round planet, rather than recoiling form it like a toothless bunny. I cannot believe that the most delicious things were placed here merely to test us, to tempt us, to make it more difficult for us to capture the grand prize: the safety of the void. To fashion of life such a petty game is unworthy of both men and gods.

I agree with you about the other religions. They are mostly a huge festering boil on the collective ass of humanity, and I think we'd all be better off if they disappeared tomorrow.

Like any other religion or belief system, Buddhism takes many forms. There are some seriously bad ass buddhists out there who are anything but weak or cowardly.

[pacman]

I never write in absolutes. I have no axe to grind with Thais, most Thai families live by the same standards, if not better than any decent western family. They treat their children with love & respect.

I see it everywhere I go in LOS, mothers with well behaved children, hard working fathers trying to get ahead in a tough environment. Most of them want nothing more than the best they can provide for their family.

But I wasn't referring to the majority, I was commenting directly on the quote in the article. I wasn't the author of it, I didn't rejoice at seeing it, it makes me nothing but sad to think that some of the poor kids born with gender dysphoria have these extra burdens to put up with on top of everything else life has served up.

My "whoopee-doo" comment was pure irony. There was no gloating, no "I-told-you-so" smart-alec rudeness meant by it, either directly or implied. I think the board is one of the only places on earth where this observation belongs, because it serves to enlighten new members to an unfortunate truth that applies to SOME of the girls they are going to meet.

If my posts are unwelcome due to being politically incorrect, I will find more worthwhile pursuits. As George Orwell prophesied "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others".

My next avatar I am coming back as a wild dog, don't they eat foxes?      

[TTChang]

(pacman @ Jul. 22 2011,14:42) I never write in absolutes

    .... even on the Economic World Hazard?  

If my posts are unwelcome due to being politically incorrect, I will find more worthwhile pursuits

C'mon Paccie, we have nothing to do with political correctness (or not) in this house.  We love it when you (& foxxee) stir things up.  I hope you won't be put off by his occasional raid into the chicken coop.

I'll state it here : Pacman & Foxxee are two of my favourite posters! Next round ....

[pacman]

There won't be any 'rounds' with Foxxee, I am not even remotely upset with him. It's just necessary to sound slightly macho now & then...

As Devo once said: "ARE WE NOT MEN?"

.... even on the Economic World Hazard?

I am glad you mentioned it, we're all fucked! Absolutely fucked!

Pacman & Foxxee are two of my favourite posters!

OK, what do you want?

[rusty nail]

(pacman @ Jul. 22 2011,18:16) OK, what do you want?

More, of course!

[f0xxee]

Come on Paccie, my old doom and gloom mongering mate,

You are very Politically Correct. You are the most inoffensive poster on the forums. A man of huge statements on occasion perhaps, but not ever nasty.

Thats my job.

[f0xxee]

(pacman @ Jul. 22 2011,14:42) If my posts are unwelcome due to being politically incorrect, I will find more worthwhile pursuits. As George Orwell prophesied "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others".

And don't sook.

Good to see some fire back... to much niceness lately. its gut-churning.

[Tomcat]

I think many religious movements just exist for the buggery of the young and Monks are no exception. Many Monks probably joined just to get access to young arse

Lazy fuckers the lot of em. A days work would kill most of these loafers

[COIN FLIP]

Who needs Mr Grumpy!