The crime of lèse-majesté...

[manarak]

hmmm... I cannot find any positives in criticizing the King.
He's an icon that holds the country together, and I think a republic / full democracy would do Thailand no good.

The country will need to be held together in future too, and the application of the lèse majesté laws today is maybe preparing the future. The new King will need protection, probably more than the current.

Maybe a way to cut the abuse of this law would be to introduce a penalty for false accusations of lèse majesté. Accusators could be fined for involving the King's figure in vain or in bad faith.

[Stogie]

I'm with SukhumvitRoad 100%...

[TTChang]

Ok, it's a bit quaint ... but I believe foreigners visiting or living in Thailand should observe the laws and customs of Thailand.  I don't think it's good for the forum to be acting as a sounding board on this subject.  No shame on me for that, maybe over-cautious.

But the Boss started this thread, and agrees 100% with Sukh Road .... so he must know what he's doing  

[kahuna]

(SukhumvitRoad @ Jan. 21 2009,14:49) And so many of the posters here say we must silently respect and accept this kind of outrage because it is the law Thailand? Shame on all of you.

I'll tell you what...we will protest silently and you can protest openly and all of us apathetic silent folks will send you some cigarettes once a week...What brand do you smoke?

I agree with TTC...It's only wrong because you think it's wrong...Right and wrong are socially constructed concepts...In my mind it is patently wrong to impose your right and wrong on another social system...

My generation tried to change the world...It didn't work...My child's generation is a bit smarter...They don't want to change the world...They want to own it...

They can have the damn place...Just leave Pattaya alone...

Kahuna

[robbo]

(Road Runner @ Jan. 21 2009,02:43)

(robbo @ Jan. 20 2009,19:23) we have to pay thru the nose for it to the tune of £60/70 million plus a year.

I always fall about laughing when I see this old chestnut rolled out!    

Anyone want to tell me what it costs to run the President of Ireland?          

Anyone want to tell me who the President of Ireland is?      

Anyone want to tell me how many tourists each year go to Ireland to see the President and/or visit where he (or is it she?) lives?    


Don't worry if you can't answer these questions.    


It costs more to run the President of Ireland than it does to run the Queeen of the United Kingdom.
Even some of the people of Ireland cannot name their own President and yet they can name the Queen of the United Kingdom.
(Incidentally the current President of Ireland is Mary McAleese who is probably the most popular person to occupy the position since it was created in 1921).
I can't answer the last question other than to say that it's very few compared to those who go to see Buckingham Palace, Windsor Castle, Sandringham, Balmoral etc let alone the Queen herself.



Now to get to the real argument  -  do some real research into the alternative forms of government and then come back and try to convert me to a system other than a constitutional monarchy.


I'll give you some clues:-    
The most efficient form of government is a dictatorship.
The cheapest is anarchy  -  my favourite but it has a few flaws.  Look it up properly before you comment!
The most popular is a republic  -  but I don't know why as it's the easiest to corrupt and is hopelessly inefficient.  (Anyone remember some bloke called George W. Something?)
Despotism is popular in Africa  -  Zimbabwe is a good example.   Autocracy  -  sort of like Zimbabwe.   Oligarchy  -  sort of like this forum.

At the end of the day there is a reason why constitutional monarchy works in many countries even today.
It's hard to corrupt  -  politically.  Though it does depend greatly on the quality of the monarch.
It's cheap  -  yes  I did say it's cheap!
It provides stability and continuity  -  these are boring but necessary  -  unless you like anarchy.


Now back to the subject.   The simple fact is that this law exists in Thailand  -  and despite one of the comments in the original post it's not a medieval law but is in fact a very modern one.
Even if the King  -  or the law courts  -  do not agree with it  -  it's the law of the land and the law courts here do apply the law with a high degree of impartiality.
The choices are either to comply with the law  -  break it and face the consequences   -  or attempt to change it.

RR.


PS.  berfore our Irish friends comment  -  I could use any example  -  but this is the only one I have information on.   Besides I'm 1/16th Irish myself!    

got some hard figures to bear out your understanding of all this have you?,hmmm. as for being an old chestnut mate,its not so old as still to be news,news that in fact allmost everybody i speak to would rather not have a royal family that we as taxpayers must pay for, meanwhile pensioners here freeze to death in winter because their frightened to put the heating on for fear of the cost,fuck off you ignorant twat you know nothing but arogance.by the way we also have a president........or prime minister (or do you not know how our political system works here and youd rather keep your head in a bucket of Guinness?)which we also have to pay for, they are words but the role played is the same, virtually.
Do you a deal ,you pay my share of the taxes for them as you support them and i dont.........fair ...... do you like that idea?

[Naang Faa]

Do you a deal ,you pay my share of the taxes for them as you support them and i dont.........fair ...... do you like that idea?

What? the whole £1.15p ? ......you crazy muthaf*a
x

[daveduke007]

[SukhumvitRoad]

(kahuna @ Jan. 24 2009,02:44)

(SukhumvitRoad @ Jan. 21 2009,14:49) And so many of the posters here say we must silently respect and accept this kind of outrage because it is the law Thailand? Shame on all of you.

,,I agree with TTC...It's only wrong because you think it's wrong...

I'm sorry, but...what?

You can't really be that shallow a human being, can you? You're saying that as long as you can find someone to suck your cock without having to pay too much, you'll just stay a happy little dicky bird and to hell with ridiculous concepts like a free society, human rights, and simple decency? That's really pathetic.

[mister_smith]

(SukhumvitRoad @ Jan. 24 2009,16:40) You can't really be that shallow a human being, can you? You're saying that as long as you can find someone to suck your cock without having to pay too much, you'll just stay a happy little dicky bird and to hell with ridiculous concepts like a free society, human rights, and simple decency? That's really pathetic.

Good call SukhumvitRoad nice to see someone on these boards who has a few scruples and actually looks at the big picture

[kahuna]

Damn...SukhumvitRoad and mister_smith are much too easy to figure out which buttons to push...

Pathetic as it may sound to you SukhumvitRoad, I don't really care if you want to impose your definitions of
free society, human rights, and simple decency on the Thais...Up to you...

You certainly can't be that arrogant a human being, can you?

But I don't suppose that you think that their definitions might differ from yours...Perhaps just a little...

[Master Bator]

Time to close this topic Stoogie before things get ugly.

[TTChang]

(Master Bator @ Jan. 24 2009,17:37) Time to close this topic Stoogie before things get ugly.

No, 'Stoogie'( ) likes it when things warm up.  "Simple decency"? .... Give me a break - that's pathetic!    OK, Kahuna & TTChang are pretty ugly, I grant you that Master Bater.

Quote from BBC News (Jonathan Head)   ..."But it is the military which is now driving the law's enforcement, with commanders demanding that soldiers and police be more vigilant in detecting anti-monarchy sentiment.
As a result thousands of websites are being blocked, Thailand's first internet blogger has been arrested, a prominent academic has been charged and an unlucky Australian writer languishes in jail hoping his plea for a royal pardon is granted"  

That is my point.   Up to Stoogie  

[Road Runner]

(robbo @ Jan. 23 2009,21:52) fuck off you ignorant twat you know nothing but arogance.

I did not use language like that to you so why do you use it to me?   Do you want a civilised reasoned discussion or are you just going to insult me because I have a dfferent view point.

got some hard figures to bear out your understanding of all this have you?

It's difficult to get accurate up to date figures for Ireland.  Most especially there are no figures for security costs. These add considerably to the budget.

For the UK the best figures I could come up with quickly are from 2005  here.   That's 62p/head in 2005.  As Nang Faa pointed out it's now around £1.15.

The cost per head in Ireland around 2005 was about 50% more  -  I can't find any link for this but it was widely reported when the first UK figures were released.
As I stated before there is little tourist revenue from visitors to Ireland going to see the president.

hmmm.  as for being an old chestnut mate,its not so old as still to be news,news that in fact allmost everybody i speak to would rather not have a royal family that we as taxpayers must pay for,

So if we don't have a royal family we get someone to be a president for free.  Interesting concept  -  you volunteering for the job?

meanwhile pensioners here freeze to death in winter because their frightened to put the heating on for fear of the cost

Excuse my apparent ignorance  -  but I seem to remember that the UK is run by an elected Prime Minister and a cabinet (who don't have to be elected) who share collective responsibility for executive decisions.

by the way we also have a president........or prime ministerwhich we also have to pay for, they are words but the role played is the same, virtually.

Do some research before you call me ignorant. There is a very considerable difference between the position of President in a republican sytem of government and the post of Prime Minister in a system with decisions by cabinet.

(or do you not know how our political system  works here  and youd rather keep your head in a bucket of Guinness?)

From your comments above I suggest you should learn about how the system of government in the UK works before you further exhibit your own ignorance of it.

Never have liked Guiness  -  Murphy's Irish Stout is very good but it needs to be well looked after.

Do you a deal ,you pay my share of the taxes for them as you support them and i dont.........fair ...... do you like that idea?

I'll do you a deal;   Buy this book and read it  British History For Dummies.  and then I won't post what I really think of you.

RR.

[SamplerDoc]

(Stogie @ Jan. 20 2009,12:16) The Times news article is here...

(Apologies to SamplerDoc... I didn't realize you had posted before on this topic...)  

Yes, I did create a whole thread about 12 hours before on the same topic and same approach as you in the same forum section but it was removed by an Admin....  

No Worries SB, you covered it all same same me but your layout is much Prettier

[Road Runner]

There was some concern about the title and part of the text SamplerDoc.

I'm not sure how long this thread will last either.

RR.