Vicky

[azza33]

(stogie bear @ Jul. 15 2007,05:36) It's a reasonable assumption to assume that Vicky's weight loss has something to do with her (alleged) drug habit. If we are all wrong then that's fine and I actually hope that we ARE wrong and she's just got the flu!

I think i read somewhere that ~~

assumptions are the mother of all f!@$# ups

***************

Perhaps Ozzie has a point~~

Innuendo, speculation and assumptions are not beneficial to anyone

Sticking to fact and first hand experience is the better option IMO

[Stewart]

Innuendo, speculation and assumptions are not beneficial to anyone

Sticking to fact and first hand experience is the better option IMO

In that case, this forum and every other forum in the world on any subject is pretty much dead and worthless.

This is a place of opinions, not scientifically proven facts backed up with evidence

It seems to me that more than just one girl seems to have got a lot thinner....so there might be a common factor. In the context we are dealing in, it seems FAR more likely that the common factor is ICE/drugs than them all doing the same diet or exercise regime, or all having anorexia

[BAM]

(ozzie @ Jul. 15 2007,00:26) What do you know for a fact?

I only dated someone for 4 years whom later became a Methamphetamine addict after she started to work as a dancer in a strip club. I've seen it all... I've dealt with it all... and if anyone knows the facts of what Meth does to someone it's me.

[azza33]

(Stewart @ Jul. 15 2007,13:46) In that case, this forum and every other forum in the world on any subject is pretty much dead and worthless.

This is a place of opinions, not scientifically proven facts backed up with evidence

I think you are making too general a sweeping statement
- not to say you are right or wrong

If i need to further clarify~~ innuendo, speculation and assumption that is highly personal

Stewart if i saw you in a pic and the next time i saw you
- you had lost weight, then i start assuming ur a ice junkie or have some other issue

Is that fair or right?? short answer NO!

We are all entitled to have opinion of what might or might not be the cause of something...

However when it comes to writing it in a forum that people use as a way of knowing people and what they are like
this becomes a real issue...

Libel lawsuits are related to just this issue ~~ something to think about~~

I am simply suggesting concrete facts are better than guesswork when dealing with personal issues.

I would have thought the basis for the majority of this forum is personal experiences in the ladyboy world
and those wanting to know about those experiences.

[falla33]

it seems this post has gone past the topic of vicky is there anyone who has chatted to her recently?

she has given me a number on msn but no answer but its 2 months b4 im in bkk again so i dont want to call til im there

[Stewart]

Stewart if i saw you in a pic and the next time i saw you
- you had lost weight, then i start assuming ur a ice junkie or have some other issue
Is that fair or right?? short answer NO!

The phrase I was careful to use was "in the context we are dealing with"

In the context of 'me', assuming I am an ice junkie is silly because I am a normal guy in a normal job with no reason to do that. I am also a sample of one, so again no common factors to draw conclusions from.

In the context of bargirls (and Bam stated the same context), they have a certain image to maintain....slim, fun, late hours, etc....it is not an unreasonable assumption that there might be similarities in the reason for the changes in appearance of many of them

Concrete facts? What concrete facts? Ask the girls if they are druggies? Live with them 24x7 and watch every move they make? Come on, the image they present to us is an illusion, filled with lies, stories, and mistruths if that is what it takes to pay the rent

[azza33]

(Stewart @ Jul. 15 2007,17:11) In the context of bargirls (and Bam stated the same context), they have a certain image to maintain....slim, fun, late hours, etc....it is not an unreasonable assumption that there might be similarities in the reason for the changes in appearance of many of them

Concrete facts? What concrete facts? Ask the girls if they are druggies? Live with them 24x7 and watch every move they make? Come on, the image they present to us is an illusion, filled with lies, stories, and mistruths if that is what it takes to pay the rent

I don't disagree with what you are saying from a circumstantial evidence perspective, however...

All i am suggesting, like Ozzie is a simple logic argument

Ice makes you lose weight (we all agree on that)

Vicky has lost weight (we all can see that)

But to conclude from these two that Vicky is on Ice is unfair and unreasonable, irrespective of context of her chosen industry.

And to purport this is a forum is not right!

Stick to the facts, if someone knows first-hand that she is taking ice, by all means let us know...

But leaving everyone thinking she is ice addict, when she may not be is wrong, dare i say it, morally

All we are doing here is tarring her with the ice junkie brush, and her potential customers from here will be looking at her differently next time, perhaps avoiding her when she could be completely innocent.

To me this is not the right thing to be doing

[stogie bear]

But to conclude from these two that Vicky is on Ice is unfair and unreasonable...

It maybe unfair, but it's not unreasonable. We withdrew the thread about her being a thief because that was unreasonable although it may be true.

It's unfair to air posts about her stealing because the poster didn't have any credibility with the forum. If an established poster had written that then it would have stayed. Plus - it just didn't sound plausible...

To correlate drug abuse and wieght loss amongst prostitutes is simple common sense to me. Sure it's not fair - nor is racial profiling but we all do it.

All we are doing here is tarring her with the ice junkie brush, and her potential customers from here will be looking at her differently next time, perhaps avoiding her when she could be completely innocent.

What you say is correct. It's a shame but that's the way life is sometimes. Maybe we are doing those potential customers a huge favour - who knows... do you?

[Guest]

In that case, this forum and every other forum in the world on any subject is pretty much dead and worthless.

So a forum full of facts and accurate information would be worthless? Doubt others see it that way.

Anyway my point is just that this is an anonymous board and it is very easy to say things even in jest which many people unfortunately will take as being gospel. I just think we need to be a little more careful as we can directly and indirectly effect these girls livelihoods without realising the impact of some of our statements.

I mean if someone starting spouting rumours about you without at least checking some of the facts first and that got back to your customers who then decided they would take their business elsehwhere I am sure you might have a different point of view onthe subject.

[Stewart]

QUOTE
In that case, this forum and every other forum in the world on any subject is pretty much dead and worthless.

So a forum full of facts and accurate information would be worthless? Doubt others see it that way.

Let me phrase it a different way then.

If I read an academic journal, or went to, say, the New Scientist forum, I would expect to see facts and evidence.

On a blind internet forum full of sex tourists, and on the subject of working ladyboys, I do not expect to see the same level of facts and evidence. I expect it to be full of opinions, heresay, mistruths and complete drivel much of the time.

I still think it is totally reasonable to assume that drugs have a significant influence on many of these girls

[stogie bear]

I expect it to be full of opinions, heresay, mistruths and complete drivel much of the time....

You're at home, then! It certainly IS...

Opinions... of course. Forums are dead unless people have an ability to say what's on their mind. Heresay - of course... there's (usually) no smoke without fire. Mistruths - it happens but we try to limit it's frequency and effect. Drivel... Yup - drivel even has it's own forum!

Considering the outragous stuff that ladyboys say to each other about us I think we do a good job of steering this messageboard towards the truth when it matters. (You should hear some of the stuff lbs tell Cindy about me and lbs tell me about Cindy. It's so insane that they can't possibly think that I'd fall for it, but still they try.)

But back to the point... I haven't heard a single post yet categorically saying that Vicky hasn't lost weight or doesn't/didn't do drugs... and considering the amount of punters that have stretched her arse from this forum over the last 3 years that in itself tells me all I need to know assume!

[Stewart]

And, in case anyone thinks I am having a go at Vicky, I am not - for the record I think she is a total goddess. Met her once for coffee, and I was a complete, gibbering, tongue-tied idiot.

My comments are more about the general concept

[azza33]

(stogie bear @ Jul. 15 2007,21:12) What you say is correct. It's a shame but that's the way life is sometimes. Maybe we are doing those potential customers a huge favour - who knows... do you?

what ever happened to the presumption of innocence??

~~ then again, maybe we are in the wrong place to be promoting innocence

~~ seems we have two very separate camps on this one

Anyways gents, its been an interesting argument

And IMO, that post you removed SB worries more than this one for what its worth as its first hand experience... but fully understand your reasons for removing!

Would it stop me bar fining Vicki? .... NOT A CHANCE



3 more months to go and its killing me~~

Desperate for a cold Tiger and night of mayhem~~

[stogie bear]

And IMO, that post you removed SB worries more than this one for what its worth as its first hand experience...

I understand what you are saying and this is when the forum becomes difficult to moderate and more complicated to justify why we (me, usually) do things.

First off - noone is going to be 100% happy with everything we do and say.

having a chat online about a ladyboy and drug abuse isn't probably going to leave a long lasting stain on her character. So even if the evidence is 'heresay' then who cares... it's not the end of the world.

But stealing sticks! People don't forget when they read about a girl stealing your shit from your hotel room, so we look at these posts a lot closer. Using my best judgement I decided that the post wasn't credible enough to remain in the public eye. The wording was a bit dubious and the poster hadn't posted much prior to that one.

Now if Ozzie or someone else had written the same thing then of course it would have stayed. Even if a poster had only been around a short while it might have stayed if the wording and accusation had been credible and believable. On this occasion it wasn't and as I haven't heard from the original poster I think we can assume that it was either a poster out to hurt Vicky or a person testing the moderation policy of this forum.

There's often a grey area of what we can do and shouldn't do on this forum and luckily we seem to have assembled a rational crew of members and readers who understand what and why some posts and threads have to go.

Like Stewart I'm not having a go at Vicky either... It could have been any girl and I too liked Vicky on the occasions I spoke to her in the past.

[stogie bear]

Here's an email from a popular and credible contributor to the board who did NOT want to be known but wanted to alert other members about Vicky...

Stogie - Not particularly interested in joining the public fray regarding Vickys drug use since its a mafia business, but I can confirm that your comments/gut-feelings about her have been right on the money. She spends all her waking hours pursuing ice-meth. I met one of her sources when I visited BKK a couple months ago, and crossed paths with Vicky herself one afternoon. She has gone from a lovely, charming, extremely intelligent person to being a conniving, deceitful addict-hag in the space of 2 years.
Her current physical and mental state are due to ice -yab. Some forum members are in denial, but her drug use is ruining her.

Not heresay anymore...