How do they get started, and why?

[fancylighters]

Just wondering. As LOS seems to have more TG's than most countries, and seems to incorporate (if not accept) them into its society, what causes these boy's to put on femm clothing, take on female personas, as eventually undergo surgical and hormonal treatments.

Is it lack of options; i.e., were these "normal" guys, who realized that they'd make more $$ as a shemale, is it cultural, is it genetic (where asian boys just are more femme), or what the f is it that causes so many of them to opt for the "third sex"?

Just wondering if you've had any discussions with them, and come to your own sort of conclusions as to why they change?

Also, very interested in when they started to experiment - - in school, after hours with their girlfriends, etc., and when they started to go public.

Thanks

[jackc]

Most of your questions are answered in the book called "The Third Sex" by Richard Totman. It was a study based specifically on Thai LBs.

As for my own unscientific conclusions, they just are what they are. It's not something they chose, rather it is just an inert feeling from a very young age that they ar not boys. Most will have fought that feeling for some time (depending on social and cultural circumstances), but eventually, they out themselves, and become true to themselves, thus blossoming into these beautiful creatures we know as ladyboys. My 2 cents.

[stogie bear]

Conditions and effects that determine our sexuality and how we live with it are infinite and can't be answered with any 'snappy' post.

In Thailand the sexes (male and female) are more blurred which makes it easier for men to be women from a physical standpoint.

Culturally in Thailand; ladyboys have always been accepted as a part of society. (Not all parts of course, in just the same way poor people don't eat at The Landmark, ladyboys don't swim topless!)

The 'machismo effect' is minimal here as most people are comfortable with their own identities and don't have to go around beating up minorities a la Western society.

This is just the start. Attitudes in schools play a large part of Thais and their tolerance for all things un-normal.

You WILL see ladyboys in all walks of life in Thailand. Ladyboys who are NOT succesful may blame society to deflect attention away from their own silly choices in life, but it's really a question of the individual and not the attitude of the masses which determine the quality of life one wants to have.

I could ramble at length on this, so now's a good time to stop!

[Mai-Kee]

Transsexual, Law and Medicine in Thailand (From Journal of Asian Sexology)
http://phuket-plasticsurgery.com/article/1.htm

Despite the fact that this article is featured on a website of an srs clinic, I think the statistics are quite interesting - especially when you see the average age of srs on westerners compared to Asians!

MK

[Road Runner]

(fancylighters @ Apr. 14 2006,01:27) Also, very interested in when they started to experiment - in school, after hours with their girlfriends, etc., and when they started to go public.

Hello Fancylighters,

From my own very limited experience most Tx girls will start trying to experiment as soon as they make the connection that they are different.

That could be as young as 2 years old  -  this is the age at which a child starts to realise it has it's own identity and starts to assert it  -  the terrible twos!
More likely though is around 6-7 years old when they start to understand that you have boys and girls...... and......
The girls I have talked to nearly all said they knew they were different as far back as they can remember.  If you press them and get them to relate it to events in their lives it seems to be normally about 6-7.

Sometimes if they have sisters they will help them  -  but this will depend on the internal politics of the family -   they may get no help.  
As Stogie says  -  'The 'machismo effect' is minimal here'  -  however there is still the perceived 'loss of face' when a family discovers their son is a ladyboy.
Unfortunately some fathers will beat the child in order to try and drive the idea out of them.


The age they go out in public?  -  obviously this will vary greatly.  One of the biggest factors will of course be support of family and friends.
I would say most won't have the self confidence until their mid-teens 15-17.
Most schools and universities I believe used to stop or at least discourage ladyboys from dressing and wearing makeup.  It seems to be more relaxed in recent years.

were these "normal" guys, who realized that they'd make more $$ as a shemale

Sometimes gay men will dress and act as ladyboys when they think they can earn more money but I would say that this something they do after they enter the P4P business.
I can name one well known 'ladyboy' who does exactly this.  I have heard some interesting  (and bitchy   ) comments from the real ladyboys about it  


RR.

[snejana_demientrovska]

well i started and notice everything before the age of reason

ok heres how explained it

3 to 6yrs old

well i was on that age i would love to wear skirt and try my moms make up my dad buys me a toy gun to toy cars but i prefer to play on my sister doll.......my parents were aware of it but they just dont mind but sometimes tell me not to play those things (like dolls or girly thins)...when i was on my kindergarten i fancy my teacher a lot and sometimes immitate her and play as teacher when i get homes and sometimes copy her fashion sense like white stockings, pencil skirts and office uniform, but my parents would just laugh about it... you see when i was 6 years old i already tried blowjob with my highschool nieghbors and i realize that i like it and suddenly get hard looking at cute guys who play basketball.......until it develop

7to 12 years old
its my age of reason. at 7 i didnt much have something that happen to me that could recall my homosexuality but when i got to 8 years old our house was under construction and i had a crush with the construction worker ....suddenly they invited to play with me on that night in the under constructed house since as kid so curious went there and saw them in the dark masturbating...well i dont have any idea what there doing but still it dirty to me since my parents of anyone thought me that looking at private organs or sex talk is dirty and malicous......but even thought i feel that way i was so curious and i know what they wanted to do suck thier cock... so i suck it and then i realize and i discover cum i realize that there other thing that comes out in the penis aside from pee but still i dont know what it is as i can say it was sour,bitter and disgusting.....well until every night i do it with them give those guys a blowjob........years pass that my family notice about my homosexuality that sometimes they correct me and dont do it cause its bad and sometimes they get mad at me and insult me or even spank me.........that is why i dont like it when my classmate criticize me as gay i get angry and sometimes cry.....and i dont admit it cause i always said that im a man im a boy im not gay......but on the 3rd grade im the only kid who goes to the highschool girls and mingle with them and even mingle with those marjorete and join them and i also join thier cheerleading for thier sports feast which is fun in so many way.........until i got on the 5th grade where my parents transfer me to an exclusive boys school so that i would become a man as my parents want me.....but its in reversable it got more worst heheehehe the influence of higher grade gays and effeminates which make me more what i am and when i stayed in the school for 3 months not going home .....so many things happen.......yess i suck all guys dick in our school specially the highschool ones and they even like it that they keep on asking more.... so many rumors and gossip passed through mouth to another mouth form guys which make my reputation so wet......until it went to the principal and i was subject for investigation.........well i was suspended for school on one week since i didnt admit what ive said and my parents dont believe it cause i was acting so innocent and since im still 11years old then whos gonna beleive them hhheheheh........still i kept on doing it to any highschool guys who are horny well i never tried anal sex but many of them attempts to do it.....but never succeed until the school is over and i have to transfer to another school cause it was a big trauma for my parents for me to go there and i was kick out of the province of cebu and finish elementary education on the other province in mindanao which i stayed there for one goddamm year and behave cause i has phobia on those sexuall acts...

until i get to highschool
13 to 17yrs old
since the phobia of sexual acts is still there i came back to cebu and continue highschool... well my parents is getting more strict on me and even told me not to mingle with gay or effeminate groups or transexual groups from the institution and i even have limitation on who im going with and where im going with.... cant stay late at night and even go home early after dismissal from class like 5pm to 5:30 which i find it kinda early but its ok and sleep at 10pm which i dont really seek much freedom on my early highschool years.........the age of sexual curiousity.......well first time i masturbate on the age of 13 and i realize i like it and do often everyday and sometimes 3 times a day and it makes me sometimes guilty cause its unfemenine but still cant help it i still putt my hands on my raging hard dick........less sexual expereince on highschool only have oral sex with few guys on highschool since im scared about another school scandal.....and sometimes i do it with my nieghbors .......my first time to watch porn and i realize that in anal sex they put the cock inside the ass i thought it was just teasing the cock outside the ass hole .....then i get hard seeing those porn and often immagine those big hard dick inside me and cum a lot.............then on my senior year i get even more developed and my classmates are teaching me to wear make up....since im the girl who loves to watch fashion tv i sometimes immitate thier make up and sometimes it make me look like a monster...well then on dismissal time my face is like a bulletin board that i have to erase my make up before i go home or my parents will get angry on me.....then i became even more outrageous and wear avant garde fashion all the time............and change when i go home......until i got graduated in highschool short hair....on the way to college and still have a parents who cant accept me for being homosexual

then comes college
2000 to present
acceptance
well i was on my freshman on college where i see different world and more introduce to the 3rd sex and already can defferentiate what is gay,what is transgender,and bisexuality,,where i got enrolled in college and there i thought i could already grow my hair long but not cause on my first 2 years i have an ROTC or a military training which i have to cut my hair to a military cut.....which i was upset but anyways i have to take the scarifice but i thought that ROTC was hell for me but not it was then that all gay and homosexual male are requested to work in the army office not in the field then we are so happy since all of us where used as secretary and make up artist for sponsor and even cordinator and the good thing about it is there are lots of boys all boys sex sex and sex was everywhere on ROTC...which is good for us and then we gays and effeminate are reunited and form a group until we got introduced to the higher years gays and transexual to join thier groups and reunited and then there i envy those higher years cause most of them are femenine and they dress like a girl and some of them took hormones then i discover hormones......well it was i had the courage to shave my eyebrows inspite that my parents wont approve it then i shave it slowly not thin but i just reason out to my parents since they notice that i just clean my eyebrows and suddenly it got thin and very thin that they are used to what they see in my eyebrows and it doesnt matter anymore since they are ok on it then comes the make up i used to wipe my make up during times when i go home and suddenly i start putting them and go home and they dont bother anymore now i see a slight freedom then come my outfit i used to wear big t-shirt in any occasion and sometimes when i go out with my friend i wear girly outfits and sometimes hide them everywhere and wear bra and padss and in any case every time i go out.... i always bring a big bag with my clothes and footwear inside and went out the house wearing baggy clothes and suddenly go to the abandon house and change girly clothes and come back home change again and hide my dirty laundry somewhere and wash it if they are not at home and dry it at the back of the closet it was so hard for me until they discover my dirty laundry and all my mom do is was it and hang it dry and well i was so consious about it but all i did was start to wear it infront of them and then my parents dont even bother............until time goes by and i was accepted and free already

well at the same time on my college fresshman years i love my virginity in the ass with my oral sex mate neighbor.....it was then when everytime i go home he always wait for me and ask for a blowjob and suddenly that day that he has his friend with and ask for a blowjob and he is also there...well then i give his friend a blowjob and he was there watching and waiting for his turn and suddenly he coundnt wait that he suddenly pull down my pantss and bend me over while i blow his friend and suddenly he put his dick with a saliva and spit in my ass and attempt to put it inside well he was not successfull on the first try that he wont stop until it went inside my ass.....ohh it really hurt when he poke me on the first time and 3 poke until he made it and i was relaxed when i feel his dick inside me it was good but still painful then i was so tight that time that he keep on push and pull and suddenly he came.....inside my ass and it was so slippery....i remember his cock was asian big and hard and has 2 tiny implanted balls down under his penile skin then i said to myself that im not gonna do that again cause it hurts and it took me 4 days to recover but then i keep looking for it and wanting it all over then i get addicted to it

well it was then on my college years i learn to become nocturnal and always hang out with my friend and hunt guys and have sex for me as the night get old for me it get so early and early to go home not until the sun shines

well lots of things happen to me when i got to college and learn a lot of things and transform due to the influence of friends and insecurity with them which i want to be like them or more than like them and i seek much freedom and acceptance from the society when im on this stage which makes me happy

now i want more

same sex relationship.......decent job for a tg and hmmm more acceptance in anothet world

and lastly sex sex sex with white guys who have big cock

[stogie bear]

Great post, Minnie. Thanks for taking the time to do that!

[Road Runner]

Hello Minerva,

Thankyou for writing that post - I've read it through several times already.

One thing I've noticed from talking to other girls is that it always seems to be much harder for the people around to accept their sexuality than it is for the girls themselves.  Your post says the same.

As someone stated in another thread  -  the more I learn  -  the more I understand how little I know.

RR.

[PigDogg]

(Mai-Kee @ Apr. 14 2006,17:26) especially when you see the average age of srs on westerners compared to Asians!

Says in 1990 the Thai mean age for SRS is 26.7.

If a study was being done in 2006, I'd take the under.

[kahuna]

I thank you also for sharing Minerva....

I would be nice if we could get more ladyboys to post here and share their feelings and life stories....

[Randyman]

(stogie bear @ Apr. 14 2006,12:56)   Great post, Minnie. Thanks for taking the time to do that!    

Yes yes, fantastic post

Thanks Sweety... (I think I owe you for a short time ...now where's the tissue???)

Randyman

[Guest]

Very interesting thread. Thanks to all for their insights particularly snejana_demientrovska (Minnie?) for telling her first hand experiences!

Hope this isn't a stupid question but here goes. Thai culture obviously tolerates ladyboys but I don't hear about the reverse - girls who early on identify with their masculine side and not their feminine. Surely there must be girls like that? As far as I know, which isn't far, there isn't an operation to replace a vagina with a penis (is there?) but I could imagine girls/women who feel they were given the wrong equipment at birth dressing and acting more like men. If there are people like this how are they accepted by Thai society?

[Guest]

(snejana_demientrovska @ Apr. 14 2006,23:47) ..you see when i was 6 years old i already tried blowjob with my highschool nieghbors

Well since nobody else comented this, i guess ill take this bullet.

Wtf, 6 years old? Just that is sicko!! Dare one even wonder how old the neighbour was?!..
And the construction workers?? Child abuse or what!!

[snejana_demientrovska]

hmmm i am aware of that kind of situation now im old and 22 years old it was a child molestation. but i remember i did love doing it back on those days i would surely feel something strange on my body that is burning when i see a guys cock and it was lust.......

[stogie bear]

(PigDogg @ Apr. 15 2006,12:04) Says in 1990 the Thai mean age for SRS is 26.7.

I'll bet that this is the age of people having the operation in Thailand and NOT the age of Thais having the operation.

(In other words; this is a surgeons count, which includes foreigners who come to get the op done.)