Discrimination

[ziggystardust]

This is my contention...

In the West, laws protect LBs (and everyone) from overt, public discrimination. However, privately, LBs are low on the totem pole and disliked, lower than gays who are now somewhat accepted.

In Thailand, laws protect no one. However, privately, LBS are accepted in many circles.

I say this after seeing many cases of discrimination. I was barred from entering Q Bar with my girlfriend, May. I was barred from entering Lucifer's bar in Pattaya.

May was told to wear men's clothes at her University (can you imagine being asked to wear women's clothes to go to school? The analogy show the idiocy of that request).

LBs were previoulsy labelled as having a mental disorder when they showed up for the army.

So, what is needed is the laws of the West and the social attitude of Thailand, combined.

Comments?

[PigDogg]

Welcome back Zig!

I'm not sure if laws protect transgenders in the West.

They can't use the restroom of their choice nor join the military.

While perhaps they might be protected once they're in a job, none work in my offfice.

[mister_smith]

yeah welcome back Ziggy! How long before you get another strop on?

[daveduke007]

P.S. Thanks for the calender Ziggy

Dave...

[katoeylover]

(ziggystardust @ Jan. 14 2007,16:08) So, what is needed is the laws of the West and the social attitude of Thailand, combined.

Unfortunately, as wonderfuls as this is, it can't happen because in the west you dont have tolerance and in the east the people dont have a say.

And i really cant see a way of changing this..

[Guest]

Many westerners complain about how Asians are less "honest", and this really come down to the "face" problem. Asians do not like confrontations, and they are willing to use a harmless white lie to conviniently avoid them. The so-called "tolerance" is mainly that. If you can hear what they talk about behind your back, you would have a different perspective.
I do agree thailand is a bit different. Buhduism may have a lot to do with it. But what I said above is the main reason you don't see the laws protecting anybody. In a way, they don't need it. The "face" culture take care of that - you just don't go around beating up gays even when you could feel so disgusted behind their backs.

[Looker]

(lostinlos @ Jan. 16 2007,12:07) Many westerners complain about how Asians are less "honest", and this really come down to the "face" problem. Asians do not like confrontations, and they are willing to  use a harmless white lie  to conviniently avoid them. The so-called "tolerance" is mainly that. If you can hear what they talk about behind your back, you would have a different perspective.
I do agree thailand is a bit different. Buhduism may have a lot to do with it. But what I said above is the main reason you don't see the laws protecting anybody. In a way, they don't need it. The "face" culture take care of that - you just don't go around beating up gays even when you could feel so disgusted behind their backs.

Very true lost..very true.
It's not tolerance, it's just that everybody minds their own fuckin' busines and are not interested in commenting, giving opinions or directly confronting issues when asked. Which is why in Asia will never have true democracy. People are just only caring for themselves and those few people around them that they consider to be worthy. All the rest can fuck off..but this is a nother issue anyway!
Then behind your back, and with other people with whom feel comfortable to express opinions with, they will wish you to go into ashes in a millisecond!
Which is why when Asians have to confront a foreigner on any kind of issue, business included, they come up with over the top foul bahaviours like mimicking the bad guys from some western movie!
They are simply not used to confrontations, and when forced to do it the results maybe scary and ridiculous at the same time.

[Guest]

You're all speaking of this as bad (non-confrontation), however, what I can speak for personally, is that I feel comfortable with my LB girlfriend in Thailand (behind the back talk or not), and I do not in the West (talking from the front). So, in my books, I'll take the behind the back.

Also, I think you're over-rotating on the behind the back. A very, very large number of people have LBs in their family, or have a good friend is one, and DO NOT talk behind the back.

Also, also, in my observation, the West talks from the front (blatant insults) AND behind the back. So I don't see the West as being better at the behind the back stuff.

Legally, there is a framework, at least I thought, in the West, to threaten someone with. I think there is no such framework in Asia (or Thailand). Having that, whether used or not, at least gives some comfort. For example, I would love to charge QBar with some legal threat.

[mirimark]

Dude !     I discriminate everyday.   I have to,  to keep from being taken advantage of.    Once I've size up my opponent after a Volley of coversation I can then put a Label of Good or Bad on my contestant.

 Yes, Yes,  Labels are bad I know,   But read in between the Lines here fella's.
Its a figure of speach and not Literal.
 Does anyone catch my drift on this ?    Or am I speeking my own language here.

[Guest]

Personal, private discrimination is a fact of life.

Public, business discrimination is really where I'd like to see improvement in Thailand.

[Guest]

I too think like Ziggy - Originally I was not pointing out the culture of avoiding confrontations as a "bad thing". It's a different way of life, and if that prevents Asians from having the "real" western style democracy, it's farangs who should back off from pushing(promoting) it ... Why should people change themselves to the extent of feeling uncomfortable so some sacred concept can be put into practice?
Also I did say Thai is different from other Asian culture, albeit similar . I think Thai people do accept LB more than others. I believe there is no Confucianism in their culture ....

[rxpharm]

We generally think lbs are well accepted in Thailand - but this opinion piece from Bangkok Post shows in certain situations this is not the case.

EDITORIAL



Prejudice in the academy
Published: 9/06/2015 at 03:30 AM
Newspaper section: News
.
Kath Khangpiboon has a problem with Thammasat University. It's a serious problem, insidious and corrosive. As detailed in this newspaper and likely to end up becoming a court case, the university rated her as a qualified lecturer and offered her a job. Then, university officials suddenly reversed their decision, withdrew the employment offer without giving a reason €” and went completely silent. Ms Kath and the majority of people who have looked into the case believe the state university has decided she can't have the job because Ms Kath identifies as transgender.

Thais and many foreign friends like to think Thailand is at least one of the most tolerant countries in the world. In fact, the nation has been called "the most tolerant" country on matters concerning LGBT - lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

Because of this, there is an entire travel sector dealing in trips to Thailand by those communities. In sheer numbers, Thailand is the leading country in the world - bar none - in surgery for transsexuals. Polish member of parliament Anna Grodzka openly brags of her operation in Bangkok, and unswervingly recommends Thailand for any person considering this procedure.

There is a downside to all this, however, and it is an ugly contrast. On the surface, Thailand has indeed earned a reputation citizens can be proud of, as tolerant to those who might be shunned, beaten, imprisoned or even hanged by the state for their conduct or dress. The ugly, intolerant and intolerable mood of anti-LGBT is there, though, and even worse in some ways when hidden by a smile than with the open hostility seen in many other countries.

For all the "tolerance" of Thailand, a transgender person is not allowed to carry an ID card that states the obvious. Declared male at birth, for example, Ms Kath - and thousands of others - are male until death under state rules. Thus, the "logic" of rather obvious females being required to show up on military conscription day, made objects of ridicule and then sent away. Until recently, their rejection included an official government paper declaring them unfit because of mental defects.

Defenders of Thammasat's hesitation over Ms Kath say any teacher at the top-ranked university must be a role model. And these people are right. For now at least, Thammasat's hierarchy faces questions over whether it is a role model for respecting sexual diversity. Ms Kath, openly showing her pride and self-esteem, is the role model in this picture.

There are claims that Thammasat is already open-minded towards the LGBT community. After all, some lecturers at Thammasat are gay, others transgender.

This is known as the argument of tokens, and informal debaters refer to it as the "some of my best friends are..." position. Ms Kath believes she is the first fully qualified, transgendered person to apply at Thammasat and declare she intends to wear female clothing.

The famous Thai tolerance is actually part of Ms Kath's difficulties with Thammasat. A hateful regime would reject her quickly if not violently. Thammasat officials cannot do that. So they must seem to be considering her academic status when the real problem is that the old, elite patriarchy is hard at work trying to think of a way to get rid of her without seeming to offend society.

Surely the university and its entire student body would be better off if administrators simply do the right thing.

So outside of the "usual" jobs lbs are in like entertainment, beauty, etc., their opportunities can be limited.