Acceptance

[Guest]

(ziggystardust @ Jan. 14 2007,10:11) Another contention...

Minorities only become accepted when they gain voting and monetary power. It is nothing to do with morals.

The Civil Rights movement succeeded because blacks became too numerous and a financial power, so the whites had to accept them.

Gays have become an organized group in vote power and financially, and thus are gaining in acceptance, and in our lifetime, the negative sentitment to gays may be gone.

LBs are not organized, nor do they have financial power. Despite egalitarian morals of a few (including Jeses), LBs will not gain acceptance globally until those two things are fixed. I believe that will not happen in our lifetimes.

Comments?

all of them fighting against ladyboys are hipocrits.most o them are

[rxpharm]

(ziggystardust @ Jan. 17 2007,04:53) Ah! We (rx and I) are living in Asia. Western culture is far more aggressive in equal rights. ...

Ahh, I wish I was in the part of Asia where you live Ziggy! It is only by a stretch of the imagination that the Middle East can be called part of Asia!

I have seen ads for lb escorts in Dubai about an hour away by air - but at prices only Sheikhs can afford!

Cannot beat LOS!

[Guest]

I believe lablels are useful, and powerful. This site utilizes a label. Every forum refers to, duh, Ladyboys, a label. If these labels didn't exist, you couldn't advertise and we couldn't talk intelligently about anything.

I also think there should be a useful label for men who like Ladyboys, but associate with Str8s.

However, this isn't the right thread for that one, and it's been done a lot of times before, so best left alone unless there is some late breaking study or idea.

[mirimark]

Ziggy,  I 100% disagree with you.   You used the word ;  ( Acceptance )
 Voting power and Monetary Value.

 Freggi'n  Bullshit.   With money does come power.  That I know.
I've never considered Minorities  second best because they've had Less than I.
 
I've always viewed people on how they Treat me and or treat each other, and not by Monetary Value or Voting rights.


Maybe you are correct Ziggy,  The General Philosophe  as you say.
 However,  I refuse to except that Philosophe it is Morally wrong and I will not bite on this baited Hook.  Its Bullshit.

 I will always accept all people and not just Minorities on the bases of how they treat;   Me,  Themselves and other's.

 

[Guest]

I hate to disagree with Ziggy, but I think it's an often misconveived notion that those demonstrations and activities brought about the foothold gained in recognition.

I think it's actually the reverse, that the acceptance was already coming and this is what ALLOWED the demonstrations and shows of power.

If you believe the paradigm that the "white man was keeping the black man down" just to take one example, then only white society could really change that. This is a case of the doors to the club only opening from the inside. You could not as a black man, with 12% of the population force your way into acceptance by white culture.

Many think that the civil rights movement somehow led the way for sweeping changes, and many believe that civil rights was a Democratic issue. In fact, attitudes were already changing rapidly, and it was the Republicans that pushed for civil rights while the Democrats consistently fought against it. (I don't believe in the whole concept of "civil rights", but that's a whole other topic, which I touched on slightly in another thread already).

The ideals of freedom, and free markets have always brought prosperity and equality faster and more effectively than any other attempts at changing social norms. The private market always responds more effectively than any government mandated force which is supposed to make people change their beliefs.

Those who lobby the government are barking up the wrong tree- as if the goverment sets the tone of the country and controls what people believe. If anything, we've seen that in general what the government prescribes- the public hates and may even spite.

As an example, Rosa Parks had to stage her "sit down" on the bus, not because the bus driver or bus company were racists. The private bus companies knew where their bread was buttered, and realized that blacks were their biggest customers. They treated their patrons with respect. It was not until the state government forced "Jim Crow" laws that enforced dictated segregation as a "solution" to the racial problem, that bus companies and drivers had to comply with government mandated rules of who sits where.

Slavery is about the worst form of "non-acceptance" I can think of. Slavery has existed for hundreds of thousands of years of human history. It is still ongoing in other countries. It only took the U.S. 89 years to end it. It was the forces of freedom and economic free markets to make this an inevitability.

I have traveled to 10 different countries, spent as much time talking to foreign visitors and immigrants here as I could, and as an international-o-phile, have read about many more. The US is the most tolerant country I know of. In Japan, they spent 400 years trying to kill anyone who did not look like them. In Africa, they are so racist that they have military gangs slaughtering each other- people you and I couldn't even tell apart in a well lit room.

I believe it is those principles of freedom and economic free markets that led to the general tolerance of Western cultures, and the US specifically.

If you want to have acceptance, stop demanding it. Increase peoples production value, and the acceptance will come along with it. You can see the difference in immigrant groups who try to exist within the US. To the degree that some bitch and moan, they have had generations of poor success. For those groups that don't have time to bitch because they are busting their ass- they change their family tree, and the acceptance of their ethnic group within a couple of generations. That's not a bad result for overcoming hundreds of thousands of years of racially based rent-seeking behavior.

but, just like those US students who bitch and moan that Asian kids are out-stripping them here in school, there is a real difference in behavior to be seen. As it turns out by scientific analysis and measure, those Asian kids spend about 2 to 4 times as much time studying for their school subjects.

If ladyboys want equal acceptance, freedom from government intervention is necessary. Economic freedom is necessary. And working their ass off to increase their personal production value is necessary. It's a formula that has worked.

[Guest]

Oh, BTW, I think the plans you have talked about... the projects you want to work on in helping LBs to increase their production value, is specifically and exactly the path in the right direction.

[Guest]

I do believe in the morality of supporting minorities, or basically anyone on the planet, my comment was on how does it really work in society? How does acceptance really happen?

I actually don't know the answer, as I've never studied it, so threw out an idea.

I'm not convinced that demonstrations haven't help. Civil Rights movement comes to mind.

As for US tolerance, I don't particularly agree with that. I've sat in a Florday bar and listened to a customer call the girl who just left, whom he'd been talking to a f'g n..... I also watched the Ku Klux Klan in Atlanta parade down main street, and saw the Mexican slaves in Dallas work the lawns of the super rich, and watched as "integration" for the US = speak like us, and behave like us. I also had a US college graduate who started to work for me in Canada ask me if we had banks in Canada; clearly he thought we were dimwitted country bumkins.

Anyhow, of all places, it seems to me the US gets things down by power economically and politically; that's sort of where I got the idea.

Having lived in Japan the last year, I can say it is racist, surely, but having been to the US over 200 times, I can't say it's a huge improvement, it's only more subtle and behind the back. At least in Japan they put the sign up that says "Japanese only".

I guess we're both diverging from the topic Grunyen.

I do agree with you that LBs getting jobs, starting businesses, is key. They just don't have the means to do so, or know how to even go about it.

[Guest]

I wrote a big reply to this.

I don't know where it went. >=[

[Guest]

(grunyen @ Jan. 23 2007,08:10) I wrote a big reply to this.

I don't know where it went.  >=[

Check with stogie.

[Guest]

If he deleted it, I'm not sure why. =(

I didn't intend to break any rules if I did, my apologies.

[Guest]

(grunyen @ Jan. 25 2007,07:01)