Gay or Not

[Guest]

No, I'm not suggesting Hitler's final solution.

On the topic of 'are you gay if you shag a LB', we got all answers, as expected, including, in my opinion, the ridiculous 'if you suck her dick your not gay, but if she puts her dick in your ass you are' (so one hole is ok, the other isn't???).

Anyhow, I read recently about a guy who did a whole book on 'categorization'. The basic theory is that 'inclusion in categories is not binary, there are degrees of inclusion'.

So, for example, on the binary question of 'are you a jock?', well, I do lots of sports but I don't think I'm a jock, I'm sort of 60% jock, meaning, I am partially included in the category of jocks, and partially not, because I do not fully identify with the classical definition of jocks.

So, likewise, I think this solves the 'gay' question. I believe we are all 'partially included in the category of gay, but not fully', and some of us are more included, and some less included, and some fully, likely.

Bottom line, it's not a binary question.

I would also say this applies to Ladyboys. In my opinion, there are many variants of Ladyboys, and some are 'partially included in that category', and some are 'fully included'.

[stogie bear]

There are as many degrees of sexuality as there are faces on the earth.

Degrees of inclusion? Well, I suppose if you were desperate to give a name to something or belong to a group, you could define sexuality as being 'a bit of that but more of this', etc.

That's the trouble with academics and scientists and it's no wonder they are so poorly paid! The amount of rubbish they come up with makes even religeous people come across as rational!

There are 6 billion people and they all have different sexual tastes which have so many variables that it is just impossible to characterize people as being in a particular group.

But in fairness to humans (who are invariably stupid and impressionable) if they want to label themselves then that's OK with me.

[olekunde]

so you out fishing for confirmation ziggy, not being gay have a ladyboy gf
we can debate ourselves to death on this, but outside this small community, living in bf/gf relationship with a ladyboy would be considered gay. but the funny thing is , most of your friends back home would probably think she is a lady at first and everything would be great, but if you told them about her cock, that would be it. you are gay my friend!! also if we look on this from a conservative point of view, using the law (in thailand) - you would be gay. look at the id to your gf - it would say "him" - you would be gay!

but one thing i really want to know more about is how you mealtickets .. eh .. i mean boyfriends to these lovely creatures handle when they wake up with no makeup, the coughs in the morning, the five o'clock shadows etc

and, if for some reason your beloved ladyboy one day decided to change back to being a gayboy, would you still stay with your ..ehh.. ladyboy?
i mean is the change that big? unless going out, work in a bar, most of these ladyboys don't wear makeup so the change can't be that big (even talesha doesnt weat her warpaint outside nana) ..

bottom line is that most of us in here would not indulge in realtionships. the whole ladyboy thing is a sex-fantasy. and you're right it's not a binary question, even straight guys want or have fantasies about sucking dick and being fucked .. but not by a man, so ladyboys (and especially asians when "made-up" are so passable they can sometimes be mistaken for a girl) are the perfect combination. but the more close you get to a ladyboy (meet her gay friends - they have a lot), see them w/o make-up etc the fanasty picture will soon start to fade.

the whole ladyboy thing is doing gaysex without being gay, or something like that ..

[69billy]

(stogie bear @ Sep. 16 2006,06:18) There are as many degrees of sexuality as there are faces on the earth.
But in fairness to humans (who are invariably stupid and impressionable) if they want to label themselves then that's OK with me.  

[Guest]

Ok guys, this is likely my last post on this forum.

Getting called a mealticket, invariably stupid for looking for labels, and dickhead in the ciccumcision item, is enough for me. I joined this for fun, it's just not remotely fun anymore.

Best 'o luck guyus.

[stogie bear]

but one thing i really want to know more about is how you mealtickets .. eh .. i mean boyfriends to these lovely creatures handle when...

Why would you think this comment is aimed at you in particular?

By pluralising his nouns he seems to be talking to all of us.

And with that in mind I'm not above being regarded as a meal ticket or at least a potential one!

Ziggy, you have a lot to offer this forum, but you can be a bit overly sensitive at times and it's my belief that you are mis-interpreting the post.

[dummy_plug]

(olekunde @ Sep. 16 2006,15:38) and, if for some reason your beloved ladyboy one day decided to change back to being a gayboy, would you still stay with your ..ehh.. ladyboy?
i mean is the change that big? unless going out, work in a bar, most of these ladyboys don't wear makeup so the change can't be that big (even talesha doesnt weat her warpaint outside nana) ..

I don't know the stats (or if anyone does) on the number of ladyboys who revert back to being gay boys, but from my personal experience with a few ladyboy friends (non-workers I might add) that they intend to stay as ladyboys for the rest of their lives. Of course this will hold true for those who have breast augmentation and finally, SRS. From my understanding is that most LBs are at a crossroads right before they enter college to go through with the full transition or just stay as a gay male. Of course, some make this decision much earlier, but thats how it was explained to me. I'm just going to guess that this number isn't all that high for ladyboys who have spent a significant portion of their post-teen lives as LBs, although I'm sure it does happen.

With regards to the make-up comment, I would say that the LBs I've seen working ordinary day-jobs, so once again I'm excluding the Nana/Patpong crowd, appear to be quite presentable and feminine. That's to say they don't cake on their blush or eye shadow like a cheap whore, but they do use make-up. My close friend and all her LB friends always looked nice when they went out, whether to see a movie, karaoke, or just go shopping. So yes, I would say that a lot of LBs wear make-up to look feminine.

[dummy_plug]

(ziggystardust @ Sep. 17 2006,00:21) Ok guys, this is likely my last post on this forum.

Getting called a mealticket, invariably stupid for looking for labels, and dickhead in the ciccumcision item, is enough for me. I joined this for fun, it's just not remotely fun anymore.

Best 'o luck guyus.

Ziggy, I hope you don't leave. While I rarely see eye-to-eye with you on some of your viewpoints, I think that you bring up some interesting topics and encourage some lively debate.

Anyways, I don't think its wrong to look for labels - labels as I guess we're calling it, is a part of every day life. It's why we have organic foods, 92 octane grade gasoline, BMW 335ci (vs. its inferior 328ci counterpart), blue shirts, and spicy foods. Its human nature to identify and classify objects in its surroundings. I've always read against so-called "labeling", but those who think that this is some quirky thing scientists came up with need to check again!

[PigDogg]

(ziggystardust @ Sep. 16 2006,11:10) Anyhow, I read recently about a guy who did a whole book on 'categorization'. The basic theory is that 'inclusion in categories is not binary, there are degrees of inclusion'.

Makes sense to me!

[Torurot]

Ziggy, you raise issues, you get responses that don't fit your viewpoint, responses you don't like/enjoy then you want to take the ball and go home. Too sensitive, hang in there! Ignore the ignorant, those that don't follow your reasoning, your branch of logic. There is room for more than one viewpoint. The "Gay" label just has too much baggage for most, whether the label fits or not, you DON'T have to wear it. Most people see colour, shades of gray. VERY FEW see black & white. Those that do tend to the ignorant end of the spectrum. They are outliers who usually can be disgarded without giving too much time or thought. Don't trouble yourself over them.

[andre459]

I hope that Ziggy continues to contribute to the forum, I enjoy the topics that he brings up and it's good to have something think about not just   over. I don't always post on his threads as I don't always have something to contribute but I enjoy reading them. If I'm not mistaken the Academic forum mainly came about through Ziggy's posts.
The gay or not issue is a sensitive one so you are going to get a range of responses. As some of the others have said you can't take everything to heart.

but one thing i really want to know more about is how you mealtickets .. eh .. i mean boyfriends to these lovely creatures handle when they wake up with no makeup, the coughs in the morning, the five o'clock shadows etc

The fact that Ziggy and some other members of the board are making a go of a relationship should be admired rather then mocked. They are obviously very comfortable with who they are and have often made major changes in their life. I agree they must see a different side then most board members.

and, if for some reason your beloved ladyboy one day decided to change back to being a gayboy, would you still stay with your ..ehh.. ladyboy?

If you loved the person you would support them in the choices they want to make, same if they wanted SRS.

[kahuna]

Great post...Same sentiments Ziggy...I'm pretty sensitive too and have gotten myself in trouble here either by saying the wrong thing or someone misinterpreting what I've said...Folks say things through their fingers that they would never utter verbally...

I'm trying to learn not to project, but I don't believe that his comments were directed to you personally...

And on that note, I have never been with a lady that didn't look absolutely beautiful when she woke in the morning sans makeup...But perhaps I've just been lucky or I'm experiencing selective blindness...

kahuna

[stogie bear]

If I'm not mistaken the Academic forum mainly came about through Ziggy's posts.

You are NOT mistaken. It was as a consequence of a couple of yerars of Ziggys posts that he and the rest of us moderators decided there would be room for a more sensible forum amongst the other naughtiness.

I'm afraid that those of us who love ladyboys have to learn to be a bit thicker skinned though and we should certainly be up for a bit of ribbing from fellow ladyboy lovers!

In fact I'm sure that it is the sensitivity and self doubt that stops many forum members from writing here at all.

I often don't agree with Ziggys posts or reasoning, but I do have a lot of respect for the time, effort and background work he puts into them. I'll try to offer a reasoned arguement as to why I do or don't agree also.

Anyway... it's up to him if he wants to post. He's a moderator and he could always delete the ones he doesn't like!

[Guest]

(ziggystardust @ Sep. 17 2006,00:21) Getting called a mealticket

It was a misspelling !!!

He meant " meatlicker "

[stogie bear]

A meatlicker? Well, damn it all to hell. I ain't posting here again... probably... not!