Ladyboy Psychology

[PigDogg]

(stogie bear @ May 20 2007,13:33) He's right... Only half the book would make any sense!        

Now that's something you two can agree upon!

[Guest]

Yes. Might be a good combination. Common sense, nonsense, 1/2, 1/2. If you flip it upside down, the nonsense becomes common sense and common sense, nonsense.

[katoeylover]

Did i read somewhere that young Ladyboys find their role models in older ladyboys in their hometown?

[SamplerDoc]

They Identify with Their Mothers Mostly

[JackG]

(SamplerDoc @ May 22 2007,04:35) They Identify with Their Mothers Mostly

Exactly my earlier point.
When I was raising my 3 children I read a great many books and articles on child rearing, especially while the wife was pregnant with the first baby. While I didn't agree with some of it, one point that was made over and over, was a child will, somewhere between 3 and 5 years of age, identify with one of the parents. Not bond with that parent, but see himself in that parent.
If there is no male role model or that male role model is never around due to his career, for example, an airline pilot, and the only person or people the child interacts with on a daily basis is/are female the odds are pretty good the kid will see himself as a female.

[rxpharm]

Interesting speculation jackg, but as pointed out by other posters, in countries like the USA/Canada/UK where there are numerous single parent families where the mother is the only parent, why are there not as many lbs as there are in Thailand?

According to your view, most male children in this situation should end up becoming a transsexual/lb. The numbers of ts in these other countries do not support this idea.

There is something more going on besides the lack of a male role figure that figures in Thai lb psychology.

[JackG]

(rxpharm @ May 23 2007,06:31) Interesting speculation jackg, but as pointed out by other posters, in countries like the USA/Canada/UK where there are numerous single parent families where the mother is the only parent, why are there not as many lbs as there are in Thailand?

According to your view, most male children in this situation should end up becoming a transsexual/lb.  The numbers of ts in these other countries do not support this idea.

There is something more going on besides the lack of a male role figure that figures in Thai lb psychology.

No and yes.
In the U.S. the male is usually held accountable and has some interaction with the child. Not always, but more often than not, plus there are the grandfathers, uncles, etc.
Where this, ladyboys, seems to happen frequently is in societies where the male is not held responsible, for example, Thailand.  It is very possible for a bar girl to get knocked up, usually by a Thai male, not a Farang customer.  The male runs away or denies anything to do with her and the baby.  The girls goes back to the village to have the child and leaves it with her mother, who may have very well have been left in the same situation a generation before, and the girl returns to the city to continue working the bars.
You often see it in the the U.S. with Black and Mexican ladyboys and, again, the men in those societies, at least in the past, have not been held accoutable.
We will never know all that accounts for a male believing he is a female, not even the psychologist really know, but I think this as good a theory as anything else I've heard so far.

[kahuna]

These girls aren't raised  in a vacuum...almost every girl that I know has brothers and/or sisters who are straight...they are not the only child in the family....In fact most girls that I know have fathers at home as well...

Even if the father is absent as you state, how in the hell does your "theory" (what you mean is your opinion and/or speculation) reconcile brothers and sisters from the same family growing up straight?

There is great deal more than the absence of a father figure at work here..

[Road Runner]

Most of the ladyboys I know are one of several brothers/sisters who's father was with the family.

The odd one out lived with her grandparents as both mother and father were absent.

RR.

[Guest]

Thai families aren't huge, but I think there are very few with 1 child, or even 2. So, as noted, most LBs grow up with a very masculine brother around, and most I know had fathers at home.

Anyhow, there was a question about older "guides".

This is something not well known, nor talked about by LBs. MOST LBs have a "sister" from their home town which is an older LB who teaches her the ways of the world...clothing, makeup, boys, etc. This is one area that actually is well described in The Third Sex. I didn' think it was true, but everyone I asked had a "Sister" and most LBs you know are the "Sister" for a younger LB! Try it, you'll see.

[katoeylover]

yes - this was written in Totman's book. and most do have many "sisters"

[Guest]

I love Seattle

The library has ordered "The Third Sex..."

I wonder if an annual subscription to Asian-TS could be classified as a research database?

[JackG]

(kahuna @ May 23 2007,08:06) ....how in the hell does your "theory" (what you mean is your opinion and/or speculation) reconcile brothers and sisters from the same family growing up straight?

"Theory \The"o*ry\, n.; pl. Theories. [F. th['e]orie, L.
  theoria, Gr. ? a beholding, spectacle, contemplation,
  speculation, fr. ? a spectator, ? to see, view. See
  Theater.]
  1. A doctrine, or scheme of things, which terminates in
     speculation or contemplation, without a view to practice;
     hypothesis; speculation."

It is an opinion, based on what I have observed.  As you said (but I'll leave out your "how in the hell"), they are many other factors involved, but IMHO, the lack of a male role model is a major part of the puzzle.

[kahuna]

Sorry JackG...I certainly didn't mean to offend you with...my "...how in the hell..." it's simply the way I speak...But from my background a "theory" is based on fact and not conjecture or opinion...It's just that you are so emphatic about your opinion that the absence of a male in the family somehow triggers "ladyboyism"  and that is something with which I disagree...

Cheers,

Kahuna

[Guest]

I've read "The Third Sex..." once, but I will read it again before returning it to the library.

I appriciate the author's tracing possible evolutionary paths from Siam's Katoey to modern Thai Ladyboys. I realize now that there is nothing like them in the West. It makes me sad to realize that moderization often means near-eradication of "more primitive" cultures.

I really enjoyed the three narratives describing the different experiences of three ladyboys. They live in a different world than anything I have ever experienced. Language and race are really the least of the differences.

I wondered if I would still be attracted to ladyboys after trying to learn more about them. I find that learning more about them has increased my fascination with them. They are not like "regular people" I know, and I am glad.

I know I still have illusions, but I am trying to chip away at them. The best way to appreciate someone is to appreciate them for what they are, not what you want them to be.