Why do they become ladyboys?

[Guest]

(liisawinkler @ Jul. 16 2007,04:16) i chose Other

if you read the book "Travesti" by Don Kulick one of the pivotal factors that propel the brazilian travesti or the shemale to become what they are is their attraction to male....which in a way is very conclusive of the fact that WE want to earn the admiration of men...

and i am not one to attach labels to anyone but MALE for us is anyone who resembles MAN and has the necessary masculine features which differentiate them physically from women....whether Gay, straight or whatever you call them....Male is defined by those boundaries in my opinion....

in my early childhood the erotic feelings for males was a major motivating force for my wanting to fashion and mold myself into an object desirable and worth their admiration...the interest in what a man thinks of me was an early and central and crucial starting point from which my transition started...

I think Liisa has it right, they want to attract males so they try to become beautiful "Ladies"

[rxpharm]

While Salma/Liisa is quite articulate, and certainly can relate her own experiences, don't try to generalize this to all lbs.

Once you get to know a number of Thai lbs, there is something more involved than erotic attraction at an early age for them - can you say that a 5 year old has erotic attraction to men? It is unlikely many lbs at this age know what erotic even is at this point. Also if this is the case, why don't they stay in the "gay" lifestyle if it was simply an attraction to men?

More questions than answers for now - I am not sure that the answer(s) will be found anytime soon. But in the meantime, enjoy meeting and spending time with them when you can!

[buttafly]

no proof has ever come out about a gene that makes a person gay or transgendered ..... and by the same token, no proof has ever come out that says it's societal; as with abortion and religion and the death penalty and even post-ops having some kind of orgasm, it's all a person's opinion or view as there is no sheer proof or right or wrong answer to any of these things.

    I back the sides who say it is societal and also look to families with a lack of  a strong father figure or no father at all; many [but surely not all] ladyboys and gays come from a household which was ruled by the Mom and also may have had a few older sisters in it and no brothers; they identify with Mom and sis more than with boys and want to be just like them.

          Gays who become ladyboys at around 18 or 19  a la  Kwang the freelancer and Donut defy this of course but they are not real ladyboys, they are doing it for the money only.   whereas a much greater percentage are real ladyboys and in my opinion became that way when they were 4 or 5 years old and were not born with it, something early on in their psychological development made them identify with the fairer sex more than with being male.

[Guest]

This is so trivial for me.

I have been with over 600 LBs. Almost every one I ask 'when did u become a LB'? I can only remember 2 who said an age over 6 yrs old.

Now how in the name of God do u think u plan to become a LB at 6 to earn money from fucking farangs at the age of 6? You don't even know what a farang is. You don't know what money is. You live in the rural outback of Asia. And how, at 6, can you say it is due to attraction to other males? With virtually no testosterone or estrogen development, you have no concept of sex and attraction at this age. Both of these are ridiculous statements for me.

Also, of the many long-term LB friends I have, very few have bad family setups. Most have very normal families, with strong fathers, so this too I think is hogwash. Of the 3 fathers I've met, it would be ridiculous to say they are weak. They are generally from the country, where macho rules, and where the last thing a mother would want is for her child to have a rough life, in the family, school, and future. So this too is ridiculous to think that a family would nurture a LB.

Finally, I have never once heard a LB said she was gay, and if she did, it was in the context of being lesbian. So, RR, I have no idea where you are getting that from, especially with your experience.

So, for me, there is absolutely zero doubt on this topic. They are born that way. Families do NOT encourage it, and very likely, the opposite. Does soceity help it somewhat? Maybe. There are role models, job potential, less discrimination, so maybe it helps coming out a bit, whereas in the west, you have the same number of LBs, however, they hide it like the devil due to outright fear in their families, friends, and societies.

Just keep this in mind and all other arguments fall apart:

1. LBs become LBs are 5 years old.
2. Most rural families are very macho, rural life macho, fathers macho.
3. It is not easy to be a LB is a fact. It is the worst choice in Thai society.

Keep those in mind and you can remove all crazy theories being shown in this thread and all others you read in the future.

[buttafly]

Zigs, no offense of course, but I can honestly say  that of all people I have ever read or heard  discuss these topics you know absolutely the very least there is to know about Thai ladyboys and about Thailand  in general.   Which is pretty odd considering that you spend a lot of time in The Kingdom and have spent thousands of dollars on,  and thousands of hours with these people.

  The Book should be cool though; that will be found in the comedy section, right?

[stogie bear]

I have been with over 600 LBs...

[BAM]

Check out the show called Taboo on National Geographic channel this Wednesday. The show will be about 'Sexual Identity' covering the topic of "Why boys become Ladyboys" looks very interesting and I think they do go to Thailand from seeing the previews... hell if I was doing a show on this subject Thailand be #1 on the list of places to do research.



http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel....hic.com


http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel....hic.com

[post-op lover]

I'm with Buttafly. Many gays self-identify as such between 5 and 15 years of age. Identifying as female is different from identifying sexual interests, so it could appear earlier, but I bet there's a big issue of whether or not they're exposed to many females in their family, such as sisters.

Anecdotally, F2Ms seem to self-identify later than M2Fs.

POL

[kahuna]

(post-op lover @ Aug. 07 2007,15:13) I bet there's a big issue of whether or not they're exposed to many females in their family, such as sisters.

You might lose that bet...

And that's one of the joys of spending more than 2 hours with a girl and just fucking her to death...

When you spend a couple of days with a girl you talk about family...mother and father, sisters and brothers...and I find a huge mix...

Some girls come from a family with a brother as the only sibling and some with both brothers and sisters...and most with both mother and father present...

I haven't found the conjugal/natal family clue yet...It may exist...but it's a mystery to me...

[Guest]

Buttafly, we'll continue to disagree amiably on this topic as we always have, but I would say the same of you. Your opinions surprise me as always after so many years on the scene. There is no value to the topic discussion by giving personally insulting sarcastic remarks.

Back to the topic...it is quite ridiculous, as well, to say it is related once again, to family makeup. I don't need to prove this, just start testing it yourself by asking every LB you go out with how many brothers, sisters, and whether her father is at home.

There is no consistency whatsoever in LB families, meaning, most DO NOT only consist of sisters or a missing father. They are all quite normal families. And has anyone actually visited a family other than me? They are all completely normal families often with macho male siblings or fathers and several sisters. Also, no loving Thai mother in her right mind would push her child to be a LB.

I will given one anecdote to demonstrate how crazy it is to think of a family 'nurtures' a LB. May's family consists of 3 sisters, 2 brothers, and a very rough father; drinks hard, works hard, is a tough old man. May told me the story of when she was in bed and her father and his friends were drinking downstairs. The father's friends were making jokes about May and asking the father why he let her be a Ladyboy. Her father said, "Anyone who doesn't like this, get the hell out of here. She is my daughter and she will do what she wants and I will support her" (or words to that effect)

It is very insightful. The main point is having a LB daughter is not easy for anyone in the family. The entire family gets questioned and maybe even ridiculed, not only the LB. However, in the vast majority of cases, the family supports the child as did May's father.

[PigDogg]

(ziggystardust @ Aug. 07 2007,05:22) May told me the story of when she was in bed and her father and his friends were drinking downstairs. The father's friends were making jokes about May and asking the father why he let her be a Ladyboy. Her father said, "Anyone who doesn't like this, get the hell out of here.

[Guest]

Buttafly, I don't actually understand which part you disagree with, but I think it's the part where I say families do NOT nurture LBs, and you say they do.

So, I just talked to May about this. She laughed and said, "Impossible. No one can make LB. It is from inside. I cannot remember how young, because I always feel like lady, from beginning. Many mother try to stop child from being LB. My friend Ae's mother told her to come home and cut her hair. Ae and I talked about it and laughed. We said, 'Better we die first than cut hair and act like man!'. Mama never want me to be LB."

I also asked her about the father issue. She said, "No. Never. My father him ok. He let me do what I want. He very strong man. Drink a lot with friends. Fishing for food. But he don't care what I do. Up to me."

This kind of answer is consistent with everything I've read on the topic (a lot), and with what most LBs tend to tell me when I ask. There are, of course, always exceptions, but exceptions mean 'the vast minority', where there were bad fathers, or dysfunctional families.

So which part of this is wrong in your opinion? And if you believe the opposite, do you think May and Ae (and so many other girls) cannot judge the situation objectively, or are lying?

I am not trying to be sarcastic. I am honestly trying to understand your perspective and why you think that way, because I would like to know, and I think this topic is always an important one.

[TTChang]

(ziggystardust @ Aug. 08 2007,23:41) I cannot remember how young, because I always feel like lady, from beginning. ....   This kind of answer is consistent with everything I've read on the topic (a lot), and with what most LBs tend to tell me when I ask.

Whenever I've discussed it with my dates, I've invariably got the same answer as ziggy did from May.   I have been astonished how early in life they 'know'.

I can't really see how that type of influence would have happened during their first few years of life, so I voted genetics (for the majority).   But I'm no expert on LBs, just my observation.

[stogie bear]

And has anyone actually visited a family other than me?

Nope. You're the only one!

[Guest]

Can always count on Stogie for snide remarks. You are a pro at that. Be proud of it.