LB Insecurity

[razrman]

(Stewart @ Aug. 20 2007,20:16) Not just Thais. Same here in Singapore. Trying to get Sporean staff to take initiative and leadership is sometimes like pulling teeth.

The 'system' of life here says that the government will take care of you, and they are not taught to think freely and independently compared to the 'west'

I agree with you 100% Stewart! And it's such a shame to see people slog long and hard to get an education and then go and waste it! It's also got to do with the "losing face"
thing.

[liisawinkler]

(stogie bear @ Aug. 21 2007,02:14) The inability or the unwillingness to work for themselves and get ahead in life is simply because they are lazy and lack the motivation and inspiration.

In my limited experience transgendered people in Thailand are MORE likely to think for themselves, display initiative and be capable of doing things with their lives.

You can even use prostitution as a microexample of the way of Thais... Go to any GG bar that employs a couple of ladyboys and who is the person getting the attention and doing the hustling? Who dances better and who is getting barfined the most?

The opportunities for ladyboys may not be as 'equal' as regular girls but once they have a shot I'll bet they are up to any challange.

Once you've 'come out' and established your identity as a member of the 'third sex' then everything else is pretty easy after that.

If a ladyboy you know doesn't want to think for herself or run a business or get off her ass and turn off the TV then it's becaus she's Thai and NOT because she's a ladyboy.

somehow i cant help but agree with this because many FIlipino LBs are the same....it seems as if they tell themselves and others that they want to progress and they want to move ahead with their lives and make something out of themselves but when it comes to the situations no matter how minute and insignificant as of the moment they are but in the end may catapult them into a better position they would be too complacent or too lazy to ever say yes or to act on it....

they seem to enjoy being in the "rut" that they are in...they say that this isn't true but their actions otherwise manifest a laziness and a complacency to remain in their current situation...

[alan1chef]

I strongly disagree with all of you. You are all stuck within your stereotypes of Thais, Filipinos and LB's. First of all, a lot of people, regardless of sex or race, are not entrepreneurs, nor have any interest in starting their own business. They are not risk-takers, and it's really that simple. If individuals are insecure, it has absolutely nothing to do with their gender or race or age. The real issue with LB's has to do with sexual discrimination, not insecurity.

[jaymee]

I disagree as well.

You'd probably get the same reactions from thai men and women as well if you actually asked and also likely the opposite reactions as well.

I'm pretty business minded and career focused and I know of others who have similar goals at least...

[post-op lover]

You guys want them to be something they're not going to be and then try to find a justification.

They don't want to be that something and try to find a justification to give you.

But, being a LB probably means they get kicked around a lot. Sometimes staying safe and not sticking your neck out feels better than taking the risk when the reward seems so unlikely and unimaginable.

POL

[thaibound]

why won't a thai LB raised in the tradition of 'there is only now', and who makes a comfortable living right now lying on her back (for either customers or sponsor), get off her ass to spend day and night running her own business instead, so when she's old and gray she'll be economically secure?
is that the question here?

[Guest]

(post-op lover @ Dec. 13 2007,12:58) You guys want them to be something they're not going to be and then try to find a justification.

They don't want to be that something and try to find a justification to give you.

What is that "something"? Being a woman? Fucking falangs?

[Guest]

(thaibound @ Dec. 13 2007,13:12) why won't a thai LB raised in the tradition of 'there is only now', and who makes a comfortable living right now lying on her back (for either customers or sponsor), get off her ass to spend day and night running her own business instead, so when she's old and gray she'll be economically secure?
is that the question here?

Because 90% of them likes the handbags, phones, clothes, yabba, silicone/surgery too much, they can´t save money, besides flunked out of school at 14 with no education, they can´t run a business.
Few nice exceptions though.

[stogie bear]

(post-op lover @ Dec. 13 2007,11:58) You guys want them to be something they're not going to be and then try to find a justification.

They don't want to be that something and try to find a justification to give you.

 A very smart observation. I'll bet that some ladyboys (no names) are pretty tired of getting treated like children and being egged on to do things that they are clearly uncomfortable with or incapable of doing well.

Instead of experimenting with their 'girlfriends' and setting them up in business and 'helping them' (ahem!) and treating them as malleable guinea pigs - maybe they should just let them be what they want to be!

[Guest]

Just discovered the academic area. Was always a bit slow with that !!

I think most of our lb contacts are already heavily entrenched in "the business" - that means us lot and others basically.

Once in - its difficult to get out, and if they are popular then they have good income. Much easier to continue this and stay with similar friends and build up a "peer circle" where everyone has the same limited ambitions and feels comfortable. Probably the limit of any critiscism would be the state of their hair, make up or clothes.

For many years, I was in a circle of friends that never studied, graduated or had decent jobs .... and it took me sometime to realise that the real world was much bigger than this. I was happy for years with a good house, decent income (comparatively), all the required material benefits, and different girlfriends on a regular basis.

It was hard to leave all this - but eventually it clicked and I got myself sorted out - well, comparatively speaking I add hastily.

I can see why its hard for successful lbs to change when they can pay their bills, have free trips and meet their immediate needs and expectations.

However, when they start losing their looks and figures - they probably realise - but then its probably also too late. Their friend base is limited, their contacts are in the wrong areas ........ and probably they look to us as clients for finance - thats difficult when they are no longer babes.

In contrast though - successes do exist. I know two Thai lbs who are successful in what they do BUT I add that they are not part of the "scene". I also know two lbs in Malaysia who have good lower management jobs and incomes. Maybe the culture is different there?

In summary, I think many Thai lbs realise they would like to have a proper (what is that !) job, but they need a real push to get going. Then again, how many of us have opened up a business at home. I did - but took me years to get around to it.

Just my first reaction

[razrman]

Based on what I know of LBs in Malaysia, video850, the two you mentioned are few and far between. In Singapore it's the same old picture.
In fact it's like the same old movie being played over and over again but each time the actors are different. Young LB goes in the line, becomes successful, cock of the walk, reaches her peak and then hits a trough. Realises it's too late and it's downhill from there. Over the past few years I've even tried reasoning with some that I know and even pointed out ways and means of getting some kind of skills that can prepare them for the hard times but it's fallen on deaf ears. Do they deserve it? Should we care?

[Guest]

Spot on - I guess for the ones we usually meet - its already too late.

I tried to help a couple of them in the past - financially - but their outlook didn't change more than a few months ..

.. it was back to the usual business, but then again - can we blame them for that .. in that culture !?!?

Sad business really, and I guess its the same for those of us that try to help - but invariably fail.

Then again, the more help they receive financially - the less motivation they feel ... thats another paradox

[statuesque]

I utterly disagree that the lack of motivation to pursue a business company by a transgirl has to do with her gender!

I, for one, have the strongest desire to setup my own company (how small it may seem) one day. I am fully aware that I will be met with trials ahead (yes, they may even be gender-specific) but I personally think that the concept of a transgender boss or CEO is completely thrilling!   (not that it hasnt happened yet anyway)


S

[alan1chef]

I will echo that sentiment, as I did in September of 2007. Insecurity is not gender specific. It has to do with cultural, class and family background. Running one's own business is not something that interests a majority of Americans but that does not mean that they suffer from insecurity.

[statuesque]

S