LB Insecurity

[Guest]

Mardhi and I discussed this, and it showed up on the Sponsor thread, so thought I'd bring it out as a new topic.

From my experience, many LBs feel extremely insecure about starting a business even when presented with all that they need and even support, for free!

I have now tried 3 times to pursuade LBs to start businesses, with me financing everything at the start, and providing help along the way. In all 3 cases, it totally flopped, in my opinion, because they thought they just couldn't do it, and were insecure about themselves as LBs starting and running a business.

Example. May has an accounting degree. She is also near finishing a second Computer Science degree. She now wants to do a Masters degree in another area. When I ask here what she wants to do when she's done all that (and hopefully not a P.hD!), she says, maybe do a laundry shop, or just work taking care of the house, cleaning, cooking. Even when I point out that the schooling is kind of useless for that, and the money earned in say, a Multi-Media Web Company might be 1000x fold a laundry shop, it goes nowhere. My impression of her response though, is something like 'I'm a LB, I can't do something like that'.

Likewise I offered 2 other very bright and close LB friends all the finances to start difference businesses. First, a 'One Stop Shop' for organizing 'The Perfect Holdiay' (including LB venues!) toursim business, then second a farang LB 'One Stop Shop' for taking care of farangs from beginning to end during a surgery trip here. While we more or less proved we had the angles and ability to make these ideas work, they basically chickened out, and again, my interpretation of what they felt was that LBs cannot do new things like that.

I could be off, as all of these feelings I'm reading are very subtle, but I do get this impression of insecurity to do some things due to their gender. It is almost a fear actually.

Whadaya think?

[PigDogg]

(ziggystardust @ Aug. 18 2007,22:54) Whadaya think?

I think some people are business oriented and others are not. My teerak is not. However a former flame of mine had a salon and another said she would like to open some kind of shop.

But the best idea is Mardhi's, one stop shopping for farang TS.

[rxpharm]

I agree with pigdogg - however having met one of the ladies Ziggy has mentioned, I am sure she could do well if she decided to go ahead and try.

There is something else we may be forgetting - while it may not be as common as before, I feel there is still some discrimination that certain jobs fit lbs "better" than others. Also in certain positions lbs have a difficult time because of societal attitudes. It takes an exceptional lb to succeed. This is very similar to the discrimination women faced around 40 years ago in western countries.

This may have an impact on how capable they view themselves in the job market. Thankfully things are changing - and Jay is a good example - but this takes time.

[mardhi]

If I am thinking of the same girl as RX and Ziggy - jay offered to use her 'marketing' knowledge in helping to set up Guess Bar. She heard nothing more from her - basically she offered her a realistic role as a PR type person - branding, marketing etc - but she could not even get over the hurdle of walking in the door - yet she could have done it in her sleep. I am with Ziggy, its a confidence thing which amazes me as these girls can and do go through huge stigma to become what they are - yet shy away from this which they 'could' do in there sleep.

I dont have the answer by the way - which is pretty much how I recall the discussion with Ziggy ended.

Cheers
Mardhi

[Guest]

I have tried numerous times to get my fiancee to open some sort of business. She knows a lot of BG's from where she's from and even though she never was a BG, I asked her if she wanted to open something that would incorporate her knowing them. Even opening a bar, but she always says stuff like she could never run a business....as if she wasn't smart enough. Actually I even thought of her opening a LB bar, but even that she claims she could never run.

With my fiancée, a lot of it is insecurities within her own head. But when it comes to being resourceful, she is that and more and always comes up with money when she needs it bad enough.

I will always encourage her to do something independently versus working for someone and even when we move to BKK next month, I will again try and persuade her to do something on her own.

Nhscotsman

[terryw]

Maybe my girl is an exception but she is running a reasonably successful travel agency in Rachada with her sister.

She does at time lack self confidence but I have never doubted her ability to run a business. I can think of a few occasions when customers have tried to rip her off because she is a ladyboy.

She is determined to succeed because failure could result in her having to work in a bar which she would hate doing.

[Guest]

My experience working with Thais is that they are generally insecure about making decisions. They feel uncomfortable being leaders. This is after 5 years now of having Thai employees.

However, being a LB seems to exacerbate that insecurity, so it's sort of a double whammy. Maybe more successes and publicity on them will help others overcome that second part. I do believe we have a role in helping it too, where it makes sense.

[Looker]

(ziggystardust @ Aug. 20 2007,10:07) My experience working with Thais is that they are generally insecure about making decisions. They feel uncomfortable being leaders. This is after 5 years now of having Thai employees.

That's very much a point! If you notice, the great majority of businessmen in Thailand are chinese.
Thais themselves prefere government jobs or no-risk normal jobs and, honestly, I don't blame them that much. I don't see this a solely Thai ladyboys-syndrome.

Being an entrepeneur myself, and having tested the bitterness of moments when things go wrong, I suggest to go on their own only when basis are seriously there, or else it's likely doomed to fail.

[stogie bear]

I disagree with the above concensus of opinions. Even being a ladyboy takes enormous courage and strength of character.

Their ability to assume responsibility is simply because they are Thai and has next to nothing to do with their gender.

The inability or the unwillingness to work for themselves and get ahead in life is simply because they are lazy and lack the motivation and inspiration.

In my limited experience transgendered people in Thailand are MORE likely to think for themselves, display initiative and be capable of doing things with their lives.

You can even use prostitution as a microexample of the way of Thais... Go to any GG bar that employs a couple of ladyboys and who is the person getting the attention and doing the hustling? Who dances better and who is getting barfined the most?

The opportunities for ladyboys may not be as 'equal' as regular girls but once they have a shot I'll bet they are up to any challange.

Once you've 'come out' and established your identity as a member of the 'third sex' then everything else is pretty easy after that.

If a ladyboy you know doesn't want to think for herself or run a business or get off her ass and turn off the TV then it's becaus she's Thai and NOT because she's a ladyboy.

[Stewart]

My experience working with Thais is that they are generally insecure about making decisions. They feel uncomfortable being leaders. This is after 5 years now of having Thai employees.

Not just Thais. Same here in Singapore. Trying to get Sporean staff to take initiative and leadership is sometimes like pulling teeth.

The 'system' of life here says that the government will take care of you, and they are not taught to think freely and independently compared to the 'west'

[Stewart]

jay offered to use her 'marketing' knowledge in helping to set up Guess Bar.    She heard nothing more from her - basically she offered her a realistic role as a PR type person - branding, marketing etc -

I would like to apply for this job please!    

Product knowledge is obviously key, and I will be willing to immerse myself in unlimited, in depth product training at Jay's convenience...and I don't mean the new pool tables!!  

[Guest]

As I've never tried to spur a Thai lady into a business, so I can't compare. I can only speak for what I've tried with LBs, and so it could be mainly a Thai thing, part LB, who knows. I've found LBs while sometimes leaders in the bar, in their 'element' so to speak, but often more shy in public and dealing with people. May is a aggressive with her friends and on the phone but a mouse with other people, like at stores, or the hospital, or meeting you guys.

[kahuna]

(ziggystardust @ Aug. 20 2007,22:19) I've found LBs while sometimes leaders in the bar, in their 'element' so to speak, but often more shy in public and dealing with people.

Yeh...but aren't we all when we are fish out of water? Throw me out of an airplane without a parachute and I'd be a bit insecure...

[stogie bear]

A Thai man dressed as a woman working in an almost all girl bar that caters to farangs that don't even speak her native toungue probably can't be characterised as "in her element!"

If she's comfortable (and/or a leader) in that enviroment it's a testement to her fortitude and further backs my original opinion.

[moe666]

I think it is the Thai mentality also not everyone in Thailand, the US or GB are have my own business. It's a lot of work, time and personal commitment for it to work.