Op or no op?

[TripleZ]

I'm not sure if this is the right forum to be posting this query in, but I thought I'd get more serious answers by posting here than in the "news" etc forum...

By way of introduction, I only know two Thai LBs well enough to honestly be able to call them friends. Both are ex-P4P but both left while still in their 20s after realising that there's more to life than money. One works in retail in BKK (let's calll her "A") and the other ("B") has gone back to live with her moderately well-to-do parents.

Both are living as females and have implants - I would say that both would be non-detectable as LBs in say Europe although the Thais always say they can always tell! They both say they have no intention of ever reverting to being male - A said she'd rather die and B just avoids the topic but she's so effeminate that I can't imagine her being happy as anything other than a female.

Both are preop but non-functional due to hormone intake. A can barely get erect and cannot ejaculate while B is able to sustain an erection and can ejaculate but it's a struggle and she couldn't manage penetration. Both don't particularly seem to mind as they're both attracted exclusively to males and prefer to be the passive partner in any case. A is actively looking for a serious boyfriend, I think B wants one but doesn't seem to be looking.

Neither has any interest in having SRS. A did mention to me once that she was thinking about it but only because she had a postie friend working in HK and earning a relative fortune as a karaoke lounge hostess ie another form of P4P, which A was also thinking about doing. She changed her mind about it as she didn't want to get back to the industry, and good on her for that. B just has no interest.

Here's my question - neither seems to be getting much out of having a penis that doesn't really work, so why not go for the op? I've put the question to both and frankly have gotten the brush-off from both...it's not financial, nor is it because either wants a fall-back option of reverting to a male identity...

Both have experience of being under the knife, although breast augmentation is reversible while SRS is not...could it be fear of surgery?

Is it just a feeling that they were born as LBs and having the operation won't change that?

I'm curious and would appreciate any thoughts or insights based on either personal experience or from comments by friends and acquaintances. I'm struggling to understand this.

Please don't bother posting comments like "I hate posties" etc - not interested!

Cheers all

[abba]

Without knowing more than you have told, I can outline a number of plausible reasons.

There are buddhist principles that indicate that "the meaning of life" has a lot to do with suffering / how one deals with suffering.

Also, peers or family members, might make recommendations that are heeded. And these recommendations are different than yours.

Furthermore, quite a few lb's interest in SRS, is inversely proportional to elapsed time, from "the prime window of opportunity for succesful SRS" ( around the ages of 19 and 20, roughly )

And in the end, maybe it is not even a current question or priority for your friends A and B.

Regarding my next consultation fee, will you be paying by cash or credit card?

[jadeite]

One other compelling benefit of SRS is the amount of hormones they need to take goes way down. There are many downsides. Any surgery can be deadly. Ladyboys have died from much more minor surgeries. Also in the case of SRS it is not a onetime thing. Periodic surgical maintenance is needed. SRS can also eliminate stimulation to the extent they can never finish again. That seems rather daunting to deny oneself the possibility of sexual gratification for the rest of their lives. I could only speculate as to why they don't want to do it as many factors can come into play, but it makes me happy to see they were able to come to terms with their body the way it is.

[rxpharm]

jadeite, could you elaborate on periodic surgical maintenance being needed? The postop lbs I know who have gone to the better doctors have not needed any periodic surgical maintenance. I know some who have had less skilled drs. requiring further surgery for revisions to correct mistakes or unsatisfactory results from the first surgery.

Yes, it is possible for those who have had SRS to lose sensation, but a skilled dr. can preserve the ability to orgasm.

Back to the op's question - not all lbs can be lumped into the same category, just as we cannot. Each person is an individual making their own decisions and choices in life. They have come to the conclusion that SRS is not for them. If that makes them happy (and so it seems), then good for them.

abba makes a good point about peers and family members having an effect as well. If your friends have not been around many lbs who have had SRS - that may have had some impact.

[Stogie]

Abba seems to have this covered... especially the desire to go 'all the way' would seem to be less of a priority as time marches on.

[jadeite]

(rxpharm @ Dec. 10 2008,09:23) could you elaborate on periodic surgical maintenance being needed?...a skilled dr. can preserve the ability to orgasm.

Just basing that off several I know that have gone in for what they call "repairs". Don't know much more about it than that. If quality SRS is available with the guarantee these things won't happen that would be very good. But as evident with implants too often the decision making in Thailand seems to be on price rather than quality.

[Stogie]

To the best of my knowledge, SRS is a 'one off' op. 'Rep[air's' are something I've not encountered, which doesn't mean all that much but I probaly would have come cross them by now.

But maintenance is important - from the point of view of the ladyboy involved. The operations themselves vary enormously and of course the surgeons aren't all the fabulously trained 'surgeons to the stars!' but there is a lot more in the size of the ladyboys genitals before the op and also the post-op maintenance routines.

The reasons for getting the chop vary, as we all know, but there is an alarming trend towards men doing this for economic reasons and in the P4P game some take on this procedure simply to avoid the 'trouble' when a customer finds out that she's a pre-op.

[princeshow]

This girl said she returned for some touch-up labioplasty which supports what MM2 said about possible SRS maintenance

Paraphrasing the above person, passing is from the neck up so if the objective is to look like a woman and be as accepted as possible as a woman than it doesn't matter what is between the legs. Transsexuals have said that facial feminization surgery is more important than SRS but they tend to be those that lived as men into their adult years.

A transsexual explains (2 min video, starts 1 minute in

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[TripleZ]

Been almost a year since I first posted this...thanks to all for responding and helping me understand the situation.

In case anyone's curious, here's a quick update on A and B.

They're both still non-op, or so they tell me. I've not been with either for all of this year so I don't know that for a fact, but I doubt they'd lie. I also don't know if either is any more "functional" than they used to be but I kind of doubt it.

A is still out of P4P. She unfortunately lost her job in retail and I now don't know how she supports herself, but she swears that she's not going back on the game ever. Cynics might say "how do you know?" - well, I don't know for sure but she's incredibly honest and she was also a former "ATS superstar" in her previous life so I'm pretty sure she would have been mentioned on this board if she was back at the gogos. I suspect (but don't know for certain) that she has a couple of sponsors. She very much wants to settle down with the right guy, and I think she'll find someone eventually...she's a keeper, although not for me as I can't see myself living in BKK permanently and she doesn't want to leave her family.

B went back to uni and finished her degree. Not sure if she tried to find a job post-graduation, but to call a spade a spade, she texted me to hit me up for, believe it or not, 165,000 baht. She said she was building a house for her folks and wanted to install air conditioning...for 165,000 baht you'd think it would be the coolest house in Thailand!!! I passed, and to be fair to her she didn't curse me out...but she went back into P4P and made it clear to me that "you are to blame". Yep, it's my fault she couldn't find a job that didn't involve peddling her ass.

Such is life, I suppose.

[Guest]

Got to be honest, if you asked me would i like to have a post op i would have said "no fucking way" but i went up to Patpong with TT Chang and of course we popped in to KC3 for a beer, whilst there i met up with an old flame "Kwan" and she looked so good (and felt even better) that i weakened.

She was fantastic and believe me Post Op or not she rocked my world so much i kept her for 2 nights, yes i paid over the top, yes she was a postie but man was she hot.

I have lived in LOS for a few years now and have not seen Kwan for at least 7 years but i will be going back again and again and as she said the sex part of it was great for both of us. I did not think posties could cum ( Ignorance is bliss) but according to Kwan if the surgeon knows what he is doing it is normal for them to achieve some kind of orgasm.

Tims Boy now likes his fellas with pussies

[Harry Lime]

This is an interesting topic to have re-surfaced for me today.

I met (in the UK and on a on a P4P basis) a black, 21 year old a couple of months back and have been seeing her on a regular basis.

She is a sweet kid and has "Female" as her gender in her passport due to chromosome imbalance.

Tall but otherwise very feminine €“ no body hair €“ good head of hair (with extensions) €“ hormonal breasts with very sensitive nipples; can get hard but rarely cums more than a droplet.

Does not like anal (receiving) and does not give anal (she says).

She enjoyed having her penis played with and enjoyed receiving a BJ, but when not actually having sex, says that she hates her penis.

She has been working with one objective to go to Dr.Suphorn€™s Clinic in Chancharuni to have the chop.

It was secondary to her, but she has got enough money together to have her breasts done too, so she€™s going for that as well.

Apparently, the end of November, early December is the clinic€™s low season so she negotiated an extremely good price (although I suspect that it is more than Thais pay).

She has never met anyone who has had the operation €“ she keeps away from other TSs and TVs as she worries about their €œbitchiness€ and €œdrugs€.

So for the last 9 months she€™s just been to college and when not at college obtained customers through AdultWork €“ the only site on which she advertised her availability.

All her knowledge of the operation comes from that which she has read on the internet and that which her UK psychiatrist has told her.

She knows she is in for a painful few months and knows that sex might not be fun when she has a vagina €“ but she does not care as she feels she will then be €œcomplete€.

She hopes to do catwalk modelling when she returns to the UK and I think she could be successful.

I admire her courage €“ She heads out to Thailand tomorrow.

[ladyboylover]

(jadeite @ Dec. 10 2008,10:59) One other compelling benefit of SRS is the amount of hormones they need to take goes way down. There are many downsides. Any surgery can be deadly. Ladyboys have died from much more minor surgeries. Also in the case of SRS it is not a onetime thing. Periodic surgical maintenance is needed. SRS can also eliminate stimulation to the extent they can never finish again. That seems rather daunting to deny oneself the possibility of sexual gratification for the rest of their lives. I could only speculate as to why they don't want to do it as many factors can come into play, but it makes me happy to see they were able to come to terms with their body the way it is.

One other compelling benefit of SRS is the amount of hormones they need to take goes way down.

Sorry, you are wrong about this!! Only when the testicles are removed is there less testosterone produced, and thus, less female hormones may be needed. The penis, prostate, etc. have nothing to do with producing male hormones. It is the testicles that produce testosterone.  Some LBs choose to have only their testicles removed with the scotum remaining intact.

[TripleZ]

Amazing to think I posted on this topic originally over 3 years ago!

A quick update on both LBs.

LB A is still pre-op and still has show signs of wanting to have the chop. She is still off the bar scene in BKK but occasionally flies to Singapore to earn herself some pocket money at Romeos in Orchard Towers. I actually ran into her for the first time in years over there - didn't even realise she was in town until she tapped me on the arm! Still a great girl, feel a bit sad for her as she clearly wants to settle down with a guy but for whatever reason has not found the right one despite being smart, funny and attractive.

I am no longer in contact with LB B but received an update on her from a mutual friend. B started touring Singapore fairly regularly and eventually saved up enough to have the chop. She is now working as a girl in one of the go-gos in BKK - not sure which one, hope I don't run into her but then again I tend to stick to the LB bars so the odds can't be that high! I do find it a little depressing that she went back to bar scene.

[rxpharm]

TripleZ, thanks very much for the update! It is always interesting to see how things progress.

LB B, just might be working in Voodoo Bar in NEP. They have switched to all postops now, but deny that to any customers coming in - they are all "ladies".

[TripleZ]

typo in my post above - LB A shows no signs of wanting the chop, as opposed to what I somehow typed above...