Immigration and Customs issues for LBs

[alram]

I went to renew my Singaporean passport today. I am fully-aware of the consequences of my dressing and thus, decided to wear a simple tank top and a blazer, paired with skinny jeans and sandals. Tinted moisturiser and just some eyemakeup. I seem to get more stares than usual on the trains- people are getting so obnoxious and oblivious, they talk and discuss about me right under my nose and expect me to pretend not to notice. I just kept looking at the 2 schoolgirls hushing away.

Anyways, I had my photo taken at the photo-taking booth. The lady looked at me, and said that I should prolly comb my fringe and show my ears. I did just that- and took this picture. This is one of those pics I would NEVER post here because I look like DEATH, but I'm proud of who I am so I'll let the kites fly~

[Matrix]

U look lovely on that photo as well my dear marla

[Otho]

You look pretty good to me too, Marla.

But it's an interesting point.

I've made some good friends among the LBs of Pattaya and had fantastic times with them, so I've thought a few times of bringing one - or even two - over for a few days holiday. But I'm based in the Middle East where it's actually illegal to be a transvestite or homosexual. And as the LBs (I assume) would all have 'Mister' on their passport and the ones I'd like to invite would have no chance at all of passing themselves off as a normal man (mainly due to the bolt-ons), I can't see how they'd possibly get past immigration here.

Anyone got any experience of this, or suggestions?

[alram]

With this photo, I went to the counter to process my application. The lady at the counter took my passport and identification card, looked at me and my photo and consulted her colleague. She came back and promptly asked if I have a medical letter. I said no and asked what is the issue. She said she can't process my application. I knew vaguely what was happening but I questioned further.

By this time, our conversation could be heard by the other applicants around us. Her colleague explained that if I take hormones, I'd have to present them with a letter to proceed with the application because I look like a lady. I told them firmly and audibly, that I am not on hormones and this is what I look like. At this point, she bent over and told me discreetly that my hair is too long and I have make-up on. I questioned their guidelines on passport photos- clearly having read it before I headed down the gutters- and highlighted the fact that there are men with far longer hair than I do, and I only have light makeup on. She explained that they have a SOP to adhere to and that my photo, taken at the immigration office itself, is not acceptable- I'd have to tie my hair up and remove my make-up.

I stated that this is uncalled for, and even if I do agree to remove my makeup, although I find it really insulting and equivalent to a strip-search, I'd look fairly the same! All I did was even out my skintone and emphasized my eyes a lil; I wasn't obliged to fill them in on my beauty regime so I didn't tell them this.

Going head-to-head with dumb policies isn't going to help me get to BKK 2 days later- so I negotiated the terms with her. I said, "this is what I look like now, whether you like it or not, and I'd rather you put this recent and HONEST photo that I took minutes ago and I'm rather sure this is what I'm going to look like at the customs."

It failed. I sat back and asked her what do I need to do then. She explained that my gender on my identification says "male" and I have to look male. Incredulous, isn't it? I told her, I'm going to go take another photo, this time with my hair tied up and that's about it. I'm not friggin' stripping my make-up or anything.

I went back to the photographer. She said she knew I was going to come back and asked if I had shown the officer the letter. I said no, I don't have any letter and I certainly do not need any medical letter to justify my appearance. She was really kind, she told me to tie my hair up and she'll try and make my photo nice. I really hate my hair tied up like that, really unflattering. Notice she even helped me zap out the pimple!

I headed back to the counter, armed with a really unflattering photo. This time, she accepted it and honestly, I don't see why tying up my hair like that makes any friggin' difference, unless immigration officers wear rubber hoods with pantyhose embroided with strawberries cutsies strapped over their heads whilst on duty.

I also enquired on their SOP as I foresee more problems at the customs. She said I should dress 'casual' but she was rather uncomfortable with what I was wearing also. She also said that I should pull up my hair when I'm at the customs and prolly try to look as manly as I can.

Now this is what I have for their SOP:

1. Make-up: If I dont look vastly different, ie. KISS-like, they're gonna freakin' show me a warrant to strip my make-up.

2. Hair: As long my hair doesn't cover my face or ears, I don't see how hair touching my shoulders is going to change my facial appearance. The background is white, what if i'm blonde?

3. Dressing: I'm sorry, but I hate to dress down. If they need to check to see if I'm male, or the person in the photo, they're gonna have to check it for themselves and make sure the officer is really hot and preferably look like Colin Farrell. I want a happy ending~ I'm not pulling anything but if they insist ... *shrug*

4. It is much easier to use my fingerprints than to go for my dong.

Let's see what happens on 23rd when I head for BKK. I don't even know what to wear now!

[Matrix]

U look exilent on that as well, even thogh i know you feel uncomfortable like that.

Still want to kiss u and more

Regards:Matrix

Ps.U do have an inner beuty that shines thru whatever you where or how u have your hair.

[alram]

(Otho @ Oct. 21 2008,23:28) You look pretty good to me too, Marla.

But it's an interesting point.

I've made some good friends among the LBs of Pattaya and had fantastic times with them, so I've thought a few times of bringing one - or even two  -  over for a few days holiday. But I'm based in the Middle East where it's actually illegal to be a transvestite or homosexual. And as the LBs (I assume) would all have 'Mister' on their passport and the ones I'd like to invite would have no chance at all of passing themselves off as a normal man (mainly due to the bolt-ons), I can't see how they'd possibly get past immigration here.

Anyone got any experience of this, or suggestions?

I'm not even on hormones or anything. And if I do get tits in future, I'm not friggin' getting any medical letter to prove anything. Well, if only becoming a woman is as easy as they say it is- put your hair down.

I don't see they throwing wigs on manlish women at the customs!

Well Otho, if it's illegal to be a TS or homosexual in that country, then it's prolly not safe for you to bring her there as well! But this is Singapore! I can't believe they still hold on to such medieval concepts on gender! How the hell does Boy George gets past immigrations?!

[Naang Faa]

(Otho @ Oct. 21 2008,17:28) You look pretty good to me too, Marla.

But it's an interesting point.

I've made some good friends among the LBs of Pattaya and had fantastic times with them, so I've thought a few times of bringing one - or even two - over for a few days holiday. But I'm based in the Middle East where it's actually illegal to be a transvestite or homosexual. And as the LBs (I assume) would all have 'Mister' on their passport and the ones I'd like to invite would have no chance at all of passing themselves off as a normal man (mainly due to the bolt-ons), I can't see how they'd possibly get past immigration here.

Anyone got any experience of this, or suggestions?

Yup,after being in Thailand for a couple of years i had
to fly home to the UK..
I went via Doha,a guy 6'18 tall bearded.gets my passport
where i had a crew cut lol looks at me,the passport,me.passport and me again and just says
"wow,you did this here? Oh no,you been in Thailand ok"
hes a little pleasant chat about if i am happy with the results
(holding up the immigration line...no worries whatsoever!
x

[rxpharm]

Marla, sad to hear that Singapore is still so conservative in this regard - while they seem to have allowances for ts preparing for SRS, they are not accepting of tgs who wish to stay preop.

As for Thailand customs and immigration - I doubt you will have any problems visiting - the immigration officer will probably not even bat an eye when checking your passport.

Otho - if you are working in the Arabian Gulf region, it is very difficult to get a Thai or Filipino lb a tourist visa. I have heard some 5 star hotels may agree to "sponsor" a visitor visa if a certain amount of nights are booked and paid for - but this is no means a sure thing. If you meet an lb who has a Singaporean or Malaysian passport, then it is quite easy.

[Otho]

Marla, to be absolutely honest, you'd need to slick your hair down even more with gel so it's flat to your skull, and wear a man's shirt. No make up at all.

Sorry, but those are the simple facts. You need to think about what you really want most out of this.

If the thing you want most is to look, feel and be perceived to be a woman by all people at all times, sorry, but the immigration people will give you shit and probably turn you away.

If the thing you want most is to get through immigration with no trouble, then you just have to take a deep breath and apply yourself 100% to looking as much as possible as you can like a man. It's just for a few hours and you're unlikely to meet or speak to anyone you'll ever see again in your life, so why not?

Once you're through, you can wash your hair, get your makeup on, dress as sexy and girly as you like and have a ball.

And Matrix is right - you are truly beautiful, however you dress.

[Naang Faa]

Otho - if you are working in the Arabian Gulf region, it is very difficult to get a Thai or Filipino lb a tourist visa. I have heard some 5 star hotels may agree to "sponsor" a visitor visa if a certain amount of nights are booked and paid for - but this is no means a sure thing. If you meet an lb who has a Singaporean or Malaysian passport, then it is quite easy.

Hi Rxpharm, i know a girl who goes to Bahrain every now and again,is that the same?
x

[alram]

(Otho @ Oct. 22 2008,00:04) Marla, to be absolutely honest, you'd need to slick your hair down even more with gel so it's flat to your skull, and wear a man's shirt. No make up at all.

Sorry, but those are the simple facts. You need to think about what you really want most out of this.

If the thing you want most is to look, feel and be perceived to be a woman by all people at all times, sorry, but the immigration people will give you shit and probably turn you away.

If the thing you want most is to get through immigration with no trouble, then you just have to take a deep breath and apply yourself 100% to looking as much as possible as you can like  a man. It's just for a few hours and you're unlikely to meet or speak to anyone you'll ever see again in your life, so why not?

Once you're through, you can wash your hair, get your makeup on, dress as sexy and girly as you like and have a ball.

And Matrix is right - you are truly beautiful, however you dress.

I don't have to be perceived as a woman. Friends who know me knows that I'm really flexible...but to tell me that I have to make effort to butch it up to look like a man, I guess that's abit uncalled for. I dont take hormones, and this is what I look like now and that's the way things are. Even if i appear au naturale, I dont see why I have to tie up my hair? I think it's pretty apparent that I'm a guy.

I'm not stubborn or an activist. But this is double standards.

[Otho]

(rxpharm @ Oct. 22 2008,00:03) As for Thailand customs and immigration - I doubt you will have any problems visiting - the immigration officer will probably not even bat an eye when checking your passport.

Otho - if you are working in the Arabian Gulf region, it is very difficult to get a Thai or Filipino lb a tourist visa. I have heard some 5 star hotels may agree to "sponsor" a visitor visa if a certain amount of nights are booked and paid for - but this is no means a sure thing. If you meet an lb who has a Singaporean or Malaysian passport, then it is quite easy.

Thanks for the info, rxpharm.

I stand corrected - if you reckon that Thai immigration wouldn't care, I'm sure you're right.

You're also right about the way it works here in Arabia. What they (the government) are mainly worried about is people coming here to work illegally. There are very few Thais, but lots and lots of Filipinos here. But they work mostly in 'service industries' - bartending, cooking, cleaning, waitressing etc. The immigration would be very suspicious of a Filipino or Thai coming in on a tourist visa, as they're worried that they'll skip.

As a matter of course, the 5 star hotels will arrange a tourist visa for you, wherever you're from, if you've booked in advance. Both they and the immigration figure (probably rightly) that if you've stumped up about 20,000 baht a night or more for a hotel room, you're not going to be looking for a job as a cleaning lady!

But if someone flies in on a hotel-arranged visa, then encounters problems at the immigration desk, the hotel would wash their hands of it entirely and walk away.

By coincidence, I've just started a new job and there are quite a few Thais at the new place. I'll make a point of asking them about their immigration experience. Might even dig up some useful information for you guys.

[Otho]

(Naang Faa @ Oct. 22 2008,00:10) Hi Rxpharm, i know a girl who goes to Bahrain every now and again,is that the same?
                                                                                                                                      x

Hi Naang Faa. I haven't been to Bahrain for a while but used to go a lot, as I had a client there. Here's my understanding...

Bahrain and Thailand used to have 'a special relationship' with regard to visas. No other GCC (Gulf region) country had the same relationship, so there were a lot of Thais in Bahrain. There was even the beginnings of a 'Thai Town' in Manama, the main city. And inevitably, that influx of Thai workers included hookers.

Manama is linked by a causeway to Saudi Arabia, which is by far the richest but also the most repressed country in the region. At the weekend, the causeway is absolutely chocker with cash-rich Saudi guys who want to get drunk and shagged. A working girl could, potentially, make big money there, but boy, she'd need to have nerves of steel. I'll leave that cryptic, but I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

Anyway, a couple of years ago, the United Nations (or some global body like that) accused Bahrain of having a shocking record for sex trafficking. As a result, they promptly ended the 'special relationship', stopped renewing Thai visas, started rejecting new applications, and raided lots of the most 'notorious' bars. Bye bye Thai Town!

As I said, I haven't been there for a while, and things of this nature do change fast in this part of the world. Maybe the bars are full of Thai honeys again these days.


Marla, really sorry to hijack your thread but this immigration thing of yours opens up all sorts of topics!

[dummy_plug]

not to hijack either, but that was an interesting story

[statuesque]

Hi alram,
I find your thread quite engaging and completely entertaining. Not in a negative way of course. Far from that. You write so eloquently and vividly, I can almost hear you talk!  

Anyway, I am in total agreement with you when it comes to policies and rubbish government stuff. Although were a bit more lenient here in the Philippines when it comes to passports and visa (had my photo taken with complete makeup on even with fake lashes, haha!), what infuriates me are airports and immigration counters. Just the thought of them makes me type in the keyboard right now just a tad harder.  

But its true. Its downright discrimination. Being lead to a small room to be interrogated and asked for further documentation is quite embarrassing and entirely uncalled for. I know how you feel.

I guess if you feel passionate about it, maybe you can write a letter to appropriate government offices there. My support group has already written to that airport in question (Hong Kong,   grrrr!) due to the high number of reports of TS discrimination and were hopeful it would get us somewhere.  

I wish you the best of luck.
As with Bangkok, you dont have to worry about what to wear. Its the beaches so wear as little as possible!  

S