When not to call them Ladyboy

[srb]

Maybe the answer is just 'ask each one personally'!

[statuesque]

I remember when one of my friends joined a beauty pageant here in London and the final question was, "How do you feel when youre called a ladyboy?"

To paraphrase her, she said that she can always be lenient to people who arent better-informed about being politically correct. In a perfect world, trans right activists would enforce TS, TG, transgirl, tgirl, translady, etc. And yet, if one is fully aware of such differences and still prefers to call her a ladyboy then she finds insult in such action. So if you know better, then its all good. If not, then its still alright. But at the end of the day, labels dont really matter because were all just men and women trying to live in this world.  

She undoubtedly brought the whole house down.  
Needless to say, I definitely stand with her.  

[srb]

Good viewpoint statuesque

Though personally I think that while most say labels dont matter, they usually do to those being mislabelled!

[titian]

Interesting thread, but I am not sure it really clarifies things. I completely agree with the comment from SRB about asking each one personally. One is reminded of the story of the tobacconist who served three customers, each of whom asked for a packet of players (a brand of cigarettes for those of you who are too young to remember). Each customer pronounced "players" a different way, and the shopkeeper pronounced it the identical way as each customer. When they had gone, the shop assistant said "Boss, you've just said "players" three different ways. Which one is correct?" "The way the customer says it" came the reply.

Let me go on to a personal example. I was walking back to my hotel holding the hand of Ae from Guess Bar, when in the Rajah car park she asked why wasn't I embarrassed to be seen holding a ladyboy's (her word) hand in public. I told her that as far as I was concerned she was a lady (my exact word), and I had no problem holding the hand of a date for the night. For the rest of the night (and the night after) she and I referred to "girls" rather than "ladyboys".

At the risk of offending the girl BMs who will read this, TS people are sometimes referred to as "chicks with dicks", and, although I would never use this expression, this is actually my view. Sisters, if you find this demeaning please let me know as I have no wish to offend, and I want every girl I spend time with to feel special, not insulted.

[statuesque]

 Chicks with dicks, shemales, ladyboys, he-she and tranny are primarily associated with the porn and sex industries.
In this context, I dont find insult in such.  
I compare it to baby talk. Parents use recognizable terms for infants to use, and horny men do something similar. They need to hear it because it somehow gives a certain extra punch when theyre "in the zone."  

Yet, in day-to-day living, should you find yourself engaged in a conversation with me and you referred to someone as "chick with dick" (and you know whats sensitively appropriate) then Ill be glad to let you know that it would come across completely demeaning to me.  

S

[statuesque]

(kahuna @ Sep. 12 2008,11:26) As poor as the grammer is, the intent it clear...Get a grip mate...they're boys...and in their scoiety they are ladyboys...forever ladyboys...

In your mind you can make of them what you want...Call them women or girls if that makes you happy...But in their world and in their minds, I believe you are way off the mark...

We were never boys in the first place, kahuna. Girls like us came to be due to the astounding fact (and yes, its scientifically proven, and no you probably havent encountered this yet) that we were born with female brains. You see, its nature and NOT nurture. In the trimester period of pregnancy, the fetus forks its development into either male or female. Since the default is female and the mothers current hormonal state then may have lacked sufficient testosterone to "wash" the fetus to activate all body parts into male, the brain is consequently left in its default sex - female.

At any given time, any given place, you pick a specimen of a transgender brain and study it under a miscroscope. Its seamlessly female.
So perhaps I should ask you. Which do you think is the ultimate factor to determine sex in a person - genitals or brains?  

S

[f0xxee]

Oooh. Ow.

God I hate to cotradict an erudite and well presented person such as yourself Ms Satuesque, but if you take a male brain and a female brain and examine them they will apprear the same. Same weight, same ugly gray matter. Not much to enjoy there. What difference you will find will be in the blood that feeds the brain, obviously differences in estrogen and testosterone. But other than that, same same.
The interesting thing is how those hormones and a few others affect the way otherwise identical brains reason, rationalise and emote. I think it is more than likely that men are more women than we think, (or choose to believe), and women more men. Find another reason to explain Margret Thatcher on one hand, the uber warrior, allegedly with female bits, and Ru Paul on the other.

Anyhow its too early. Time for coffee to make my gray matter work.

I have always called ladyboys girls. My Ladyboy GF's are exactly that. My Girlfriend.

I agree with Kahuna that in Thailand and most places even after SRS a ladyboy is in the eyes of society remains a ladyboy.


Me? I don't really care for labels. What I have discovered as a professionally employed man who is reasonably far up the career ladder, is that if you love you Girlfriend, be she ladyboy, GG, black, white, brindle, short and fat or tall and statuesque, butt-ugly or supermodel, and you are proud of her and love her and look the world in the eye as you walk down the street hand in hand you get some respect for it. And left alone.

Hide in the closet and you become the victim of discrimination gossip and inuendo. (Inuendo... a word that sounds like it should be more fun than it is...)

In essence it would seem it is the way people are. We love labels.

Everyone heard the joke about Pierre the Goat-fucker? I rest my case.

[alram]

(titian @ Sep. 30 2008,02:46) Let me go on to a personal example.  I was walking back to my hotel holding the hand of Ae from Guess Bar, when in the Rajah car park she asked why wasn't I embarrassed to be seen holding a ladyboy's (her word) hand in public.  I told her that as far as I was concerned she was a lady (my exact word), and I had no problem holding the hand of a date for the night.  For the rest of the night (and the night after) she and I referred to "girls" rather than "ladyboys".

That's the sweetest thing E.V.E.R. Guys here got to, got to have more balls than ladyboys

[Naang Faa]

God I hate to cotradict an erudite and well presented person such as yourself Ms Satuesque, but if you take a male brain and a female brain and examine them they will apprear the same. Same weight, same ugly gray matter. Not much to enjoy there. What difference you will find will be in the blood that feeds the brain, obviously differences in estrogen and testosterone. But other than that, same same.

Miss Statuesque is quite correct M2F brain structure

It's heavy reading but it's the same weather the person has been on hormones or not..

Personally,as i have said before,and it's the same for all the girls in our group we stopped
caring why we are this way and just enjoy the fact that, in this day and age,we can do something about it.

We,even though we are all post op,call ourselves ladyboys,we ourselves call our home Ladyboy Towers..
Even the girls who lived and married in Europe who have citizenship and recognized as
female,including myself,call ourselves ladyboy too..
The only exceptions are when a girl has an unaware boyfriend,then we are all women haha.

But,to refer to us as boys,he or him,is out right insulting,and if thats your view you may as
well do your shopping in Boystown because your not welcome in their world..
x

[si geena]

(f0xxee @ Sep. 30 2008,01:29) Girlfriend.

...and you are proud of her and love her and look the world in the eye as you walk down the street hand in hand you get some respect for it. And left alone.

Quite simply the way I see it as well.

[kahuna]

(Naang Faa @ Oct. 15 2008,18:20) We,even though we are all post op,call ourselves ladyboys,we ourselves call our home Ladyboy Towers..
Even the girls who lived and married in Europe who have citizenship and recognized as
female,including myself,call ourselves ladyboy too..
The only exceptions are when a girl has an unaware boyfriend,then we are all women haha.

 

Thank you NF...that is exactly the point I was trying to make...Moreover, their definition stretches beyond ours and includes those who we would never term a ladyboy...

All that is really important is how they view themselves, not how we view them...

[Naang Faa]

Thanks Kahuna
Although we are sort of a clique our lot,we never disassociate form all
variety of lb's and there is no stigma to be called one..we are what we are
and no amount of surgery is going to change that.
x

[harley quinn]

This is a most interesting thread: I have several transgendered friends who I occassionally accompany to restaurants, shows etc in London. I always refer to them using female pronouns because they prefer that, but have no problem with anyone knowing their genetic status. That's to say that I am comfortable with what they are, they are comfortable wth what they are and anyone else can go and whistle !

Quite frankly given the choice between a gloriously turned out transsexual and what the late Rob69 referred to as "Hippos" I know who I'd rather be with.

The way you refer to people surely comes down to manners: people matter labels don't - simple as that.

[Guest]

If a girl doesn't call herself a ladyboy then you can't call her one.

The problem with this term is that it most likely did not come from the kathoeys themselves to whom it is ascribed. So it is essentially a question of being named and accepting it or not.

Obvioulsy nowadays many Asian trans women are comfortable being called and calling themselves ladyboys. There are others though who still resist the term. Myself, I identify as a woman and prefer to be treated and called as one.

I'm from the Philippines and I can tell you that it's only recently that this term has gained currency within the trans community. Either it's been brought here or someone adopted it and so it caught fire.

No matter. Whether you identify as trans, TG, t-girl, trans girl, transsexual, bakla/bayot/bantut, woman, female etc., the most important thing is you know who you are deep inside regardless of what you or others call you by and you take pride in your community and, yes, your self.

[statuesque]

 OMG diabollique I know you!!!  
I wouldve never thought wed bump into each other here!
Whats your reason?  

S